Broggy or Dorry in a 1-1 against mid-tier members of the Worst Generation

Discussion in 'Battles' started by Seiryu, Jun 19, 2016.

  1. Seiryu

    Well-Known Member
    Busoshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    584
    Trophy Points:
    3,450
    I am intrigued by @Zeek's Tier List (http://opforum.net/threads/one-piece-forum-tier-list.49672/), and want to get people's opinion on the "strongest" giants in a 1-1 against someone like Drake, Hawkins, Apoo, or Urogue.

    Even though Broggy and Dorry were fighting a "death match", from my perspective the two of them were sparring with real weapons (potential for death, but not putting forth their full effort). What makes me say this is that Oda had them perform the first bladed projectile (pretty sure Mihawk only uses regular sword strikes to cut Krieg's ship). In the manga, there are no visuals to the attack while the anime shows a blue/red projectile. I think Oda had the bladed projectiles in mind, but could not use it against the giant goldfish since it would cut the Going Merry (thus the shock wave effect that literally destroys the fish's flesh (remember it didn't cut a hole in the fish, it instantaneously disintegrated 1/4th to 1/5th of the fish). If Broggy and Dorry really wanted to kill each other, they would have been using big attacks like this from the start.

    So giants have the obvious advantage against most people in brute strength. The true powerhouses in One Piece can exceed the strength of giants. I agree with Zeek's list that there are many people with similar strength levels, but would win against Broggy/Dorry due to a speed advantage. Thus someone like Luffy in gear second (who's strength level is somewhat close to a giant) can win by delivering strong enough blows with a huge speed advantage.

    That brings us to the mid-tier level members of the Worst Generation. Some of them have abstract abilities that are major X-factors (Apoo and Hawkins), but none of them appear to have top tier speed. Urogue and Drake in his full T-Rex mode should at least be close to giant-level strength, but how fast are they? Sure they were completely dominated by Kizaru, but even Luffy's gear second was too slow against the speed of light.

    Personally, I don't think Urogue or Drake would win against Broggy or Dorry simply because they were not shown to be fast enough to evade attacks and move into range to land clean blows. Both have been implied to be strong enough to land winning blows, but both were even dominated in speed by the Pacifista (they are slower than the Mugiwaras).

    We don't have much on Hawkins' offensive capabilities when he activates his voodoo doll mode, but his ability to transfer damage to his sacrificial dolls would give him a chance to move into attack range. If he had the time to prepare enough dolls to survive a giant's attack, he has a chance to win.

    Apoo is the one I think that would be able to win the easiest since his ability allows for what appears to be pretty strong projectile attacks. Apoo was shown to be pretty quick in attempting to run away, so with the tactics of staying as far away as possible and launching barrages explosive music, he would win.

    I definitely don't think Apoo is the strongest/best fighter of this mid-tier (my vote would be Hawkins or Drake), but his skill set matches up against a giant the best.
     
    Tony likes this.
  2. Jawahib

    Well-Known Member
    Busoshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    659
    Likes Received:
    515
    Trophy Points:
    3,100
    Gender:
    Male
    I like the way you think, sir.
    This honestly isn't my kind of, thread though, as it requires us to draw conclusions based on several layers of opinions. I know you're trying to get a more general gauge out of us, but I feel I can't adequately answer this kind of question by speculating, so I won't give anything final.

    Ultimately, we don't know how truly strong the giants were, and we don't know how truly strong any Supernova is apart from Luffy is (we haven't even seen the extent of Zoro since time-skip), so we'd have to make assumptions on both sides to decide which would win a fight. We don't know if Oda will give the giants Haki to support the claim that they were the strongest of the Elbaf warriors back in the day. We don't know if their strongest attack really was that shockwave that blasted the goldfish.

    Bluntly, though, from what we've seen now, I think that the mid-tier Supernovas would lose, just based on that physical strength gap.
     
    Seiryu likes this.
  3. All Anime

    Well-Known Member
    Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Gender:
    Male
    I know that the giants of Elbaf are pretty strong but I don't take the tiny details of pre time skip into account as I think that it was a little overpowered to disintegrate the fish into pieces. And I think every supernova is super fast. Let's analyze the speed of zorro, looking at the jumps of zorro and the speed of which he was dodging the attacks from pica or hody or Monet he is as fast as luffy in gear 2 ( I believe ). Cmon dodging bullets was a thing he did pre time skip. Law can do instant transmission. All the supernovas that we know a little about are very fast. I don't expect any one else to be slow as well. All in all I am saying that all the Mid levels should be able to take down one of them at the least. I think urugue can fly at great speed (I doubt)drake should have a transformation in which he will be as big as broggy himself.
    If you analyze durability Hawkins will have upper hand.
     
  4. Seiryu

    Well-Known Member
    Busoshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    584
    Trophy Points:
    3,450
    I agree about the Zoro talks, but I would put Zoro among the top of the Supernovas (even above Kidd; Zoro's giant level strength would allow him to not lose his swords, and could easily cut Kidd up). The part I disagree with is that most of the "bullet dodging" is secondary to bad shooters. The crew is usually blindly running away from Marines who do nothing but miss. I think it was only around Enies Lobby when Oda had Zoro actively block bullets with his blades (Mihawk does this from his first appearance).

    I do not agree with the assumption that everyone is also superhuman fast. None of the Shandora/Skypiea residents actually could use their wings to fly/accelerate, so safe to assume the same applies for Urogue. As Jawahib mentioned, it all is based on multiple assumptions, but nothing with the fights against the Pacifista/Kizaru points towards anything more than average speed.
     
    Dustfinger likes this.
  5. Edinbour

    The Red King
    Haoshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    Messages:
    6,768
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    Trophy Points:
    8,790
    Gender:
    Male
    Although I don't care much for a few Members of the Worst Generation, I think all of them can take out Broggy/Dorry
     
  6. Pacquiao8

    8th Commander of the Straw Hat Grand Fleet
    Haoshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    2,725
    Likes Received:
    861
    Trophy Points:
    6,870
    Gender:
    Male
    They seem to be stronger than Hajrudin and they might have Haki. I think they can give the Supernovas a good fight.
     
  7. Marco Polo

    Marc'emon
    Moderator
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,548
    Likes Received:
    2,118
    Trophy Points:
    7,220
    Gender:
    Male
    Okay, since the Urouge revelation a few chaps back I think we could comfortably say that Urouge would take either of them in a 1v1
    So if Drake/Apoo/Hawkins are his level then I'd say they'd all win in a 1v1
     
  8. Seiryu

    Well-Known Member
    Busoshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    584
    Trophy Points:
    3,450
    Yup. Being called a "beast" or revered by peers is all relative to what part of the world you travel to/remain in. I forgot about it, but Urouge is implied to be stronger than his Supernova peers when he was first introduction. They are all probably in the same tier though.
     
  9. Dustfinger

    Jack Of No Trades
    Haoshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,565
    Likes Received:
    1,305
    Trophy Points:
    5,650
    Gender:
    Male
    This is just my speculation. :)

    Urouge beat Big Mom's commander single handed. We didn't know the size of the commander but the conclusion is Urouge got strong after two years, strong enough to beat one of the commanders of a Yonko. Size is really a big deal but Urouge have the ability to stay strong a gained strength so for now I'm not so sure who will gonna win.

    Same goes with Drake. Assuming he became a commander of Kaidou then we can say he surely got strong because being a commander of a Yonko is not easy. He really need to be strong. But the disadvantage again is the size of giants. We don't know if these two is fast so the result is undecided still.

    As for Apoo, I think he will win because of his unique ability. Hawkins is undecided also. Aside from fortune telling and producing dolls his other potential powers were not yet revealed.

    I agree with Zoro defeating Kidd. Zoro fan here! :D
     
  10. Seiryu

    Well-Known Member
    Busoshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    584
    Trophy Points:
    3,450
    Commanders/executives are not universal. So far, Jack is implied to be the right hand man, with everyone else being expendable. The weak are treated as trash with no respect at all (the recent anime episode further emphasized this). I would also assume Shanks has a similar system to Luffy's crew in that everyone is an equal. The captain demands respect, but their stupidity needs to be balanced by everyone else. The only difference is that Luffy has his monster trio (two "commanders/executives"), but I would assume Shanks' core members are all at that elite of the elite level.
    Hawkins has a similar "transformation" mode (what Urouge has as well when he goes "super saiyajin" with a similar bulking up). He has the most unique ability, even more so than Apoo. The vodoo/black magic aspect definitely has more potential.

    The missing links are seeing Broggy/Dorry fighting with their life on the line (vs. just sparring for pride) and also how much training the other Supernovas got. Obviously none of them got the same level of training as the Mugiwaras, so how much they improved is an equal question mark.
     

Share This Page