1. Check out our latest video "One Piece Discussion: Wano Hype!" and discuss it with us!
  2. We have a new Facebook page! You can like it by clicking HERE!

Blackbeard's secret

Discussion in 'One Piece Theories' started by Admiral Ryokugyu, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Yuuzume

    Slayer Candidate
    Busoshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    924
    Trophy Points:
    3,500
    Gender:
    Male
    To be fair,the exact meaning of the word from "absorb" to "acquire" probably ins't something that a moderatot would deem fit to re edit,since the meanings are similar to each other and they might have not thought of this situation.Well,just mentioning this for the sake of covering several scenarios.Since you treat them all as similar further down,let's go with that.

    Teach's case is split into two parts:

    1) How he can steal devil fruit abilities.
    2) How he can house two abilities in hi body at the same time.

    The "Yami-Yami fruit is responsible for both" attempts to attribute both parts to the darkness fruit,as the description suggests.The "many people in one" theories attempt to attribute only the 2nd part to Teach's special physiology,whatever that may be.Like I've said before,a theory that talks about just the 2nd part is not one that I would consider a complete theory as far as the subject of Teach in general goes.However,in such a theory,anything related to the 1rst part,doesn't affect the theory in any way.I'm not in favor of the darkness fruit being responsible for everything because then a dual ability wielding user would most likely had appeared before Teach.

    Honestly speaking,the way that this theory suggests isn't actually unique to Teach either.The suggestion that the 3 people are brothers explains why the 2 would be willing to exist inside of darkness,but it's not really limited to brothers.Good friends or even just people with the same goal could have done it.So with that in mind,a dual wielding devil fruit user should have appeared in the past as well if all it takes was just a mutual agreement between the people involved.

    In any case,I personally believe that the darkness fruit theories explain the 1rst part and the many people in one theories explain the 2nd part.In other words,a complete theory about Teach for me,would be a hybrid/combination of the two types of theories.The reason why I like this theory as far as the 2nd part goes,is cause it explains the small details like Teach's teeth.

    If what you're trying to say is that this theory doesn't cover the entirety of Teach's case,I would not disagree.Admiral has even said so himself in one of his comments on this very page.But if you want to say that the lack of mention of the 2nd part somehow affects this theory,I would have to disagree.How the abilities are extracted doesn't affect the way to house them.You yourself stated that Marco commented on Teach's special body as if he knew about it even before Teach got the darkness fruit.That should hint that whatever way according to which Teach's body is special,applied even before he got his ability to steal fruits.
     
  2. Behnam

    The one who wants CHOIce
    Busoshoku Haki Member of the Season
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    1,299
    Trophy Points:
    4,775
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think you did understand what I meant, though I still did repeat it various times over there. Obviously the false information won't have a place in Wikipedia or Wikia, and as you mentioned this argument just died many years ago, but when we're talking about details, and explanations about some certain happenings, like this moment when Jinbei was talking about Akainu and Black Beard Pirates, it's just something that the writer of that post explains it. So again I say it that the terms that different people use would be different from each other and there's no problem with it. Using the term absorb from a person who's not Oda, is not a false information, is just an explanation different than the one used in Manga, and expecting that every singe word that an unknown writer uses in Wikia be the exact word from Manga, is not appropriate at all. If Oda was writing all of those texts, then you were right, but he's not and only random people are searching about information and gathering it there, and I appreciate their efforts. And their source is Manga, of course. So again I repeat what I've said: when we're talking about details like this, that not all of people would give attention to it, we can't trust this because Oda didn't write those details by himself it's just the self-explanation that those unknown people give, and they are not false, since they are in a quote. If they would use: “absorb” instead of absorb, then we could say they actually mean it. And we always got the source to refer to it: Japanese Version. As long as it just shows it that it's just an explanation about that part in Chapter 650, we can't actually believe every single word that the writer of that post uses, is exactly every single word that Oda uses. So now it may be absorb, or acquire or get or obtain or any other word. It's not known, as long as we don't refer to Japanese Version and see what Kanji is used. We can't use Wikia as an exact source and expect that every single thing would match with every single thing in Manga, especially when we're talking about words and terms that different people would describe it differently.

    Now let's see what Jinbei says: “Rumor has it that his crew are actively hunting down users of devil fruit abilities. Though little is known of the how... it seems they possess some means of killing devil fruit users and taking their abilities for themselves. The BlackBeard Pirates' primary aim is to acquire the most powerful devil fruit abilities they can obtain. So be careful, all of you!”

    It's true that no matter what word it is to say that, and we already know that The BlackBeard Pirates have found a way to take the ability of Devil Fruit users after killing them. Also I don't think it was mentioned that they've done it for the first time in history. The only thing that was done in the first time in history, was that BlackBeard having 2 Devil Fruits at the same time, not being able to take the Devil Fruit Ability from Devil Fruit users after their death. I don't remember any moment. If you know it, please it share it here, I'm not quite sure about it. As long as it's not mentioned, we can't go by ourselves and say: yeah the thing they do is special, so it was the first time in the history. It's going to be another assumption that we know nothing to prove it. Since nobody has mentioned anything about it. But if there's something, I'd be glad to see it, as I said, I just don't remember that it was said.

    Also, as we know, it's they who are searching for Devil Fruit users and hunting them. And it's they who're taking the abilities of Devil Fruit users. And according to this part: “... for themselves” it means that the BlackBeard's crew are going for doing that. And since it says they are taking them for themselves, I think it's completely obvious that: 1- The crew of BlackBeard, are killing the Devil Fruit users and obtaining their power with eating their Devil Fruit, to become stronger. And they would choose the most powerful devil fruits for that 2- By take it means that they are actually collecting them and bringing them to BlackBeard, or maybe another reason behind it for collecting them.

    For me, the first possibility is much more probable than the second. Jinbei is directly telling us that BlackBeard Pirates (And not only Teach) know how to take the Devil Fruit Abilities from Devil Fruit users after killing them, for themselves, not BlackBeard, not anyone else. They do it alone, and they take it for themselves.

    Now I want to mention Jesus Burgess in Dressrosa again, we know that he still had hope to get the Devil Fruit from Sabo, even after he had eaten it. And we know that he wanted to eat it himself, not to bring it to BlackBeard or anyone else. So now we know something really important: The process of taking Devil Fruit Abilities (Or maybe only Devil Fruit itself) from the user's body after killing it, is not unique to BlackBeard and Yami Yami no Mi, and as we can see Jesus Burgess, and all those other captains and also the crews of BlackBeard know the secret and are able to obtain the Devil Fruit Abilities (Or maybe only Devil Fruit itself) from them, only by themselves, and completely without using the unique power of Yami Yami no Mi, since only BlackBeard in this earthen world has that Devil Fruit and is able to use it, hence when all those other captains, including Jesus Burgess can do the process of taking the Devil Fruit out of user's body, it means it's not something unique. And everyone who knows the secret to how obtain the Devil Fruit out of the user's body, will be able to do it, though they are normal people. So we know that the process of taking the Devil fruit out of the user's body, is not unique to BlackBeard and anyone can do it by himself, as the crew of BlackBeard are doing it right now.

    So right now, the only thing I can see, it's not even condemning the Many people in one theory, but it also will be a challenge for Yami Yami no Mi theory. Since it shows that the process of taking the Devil Fruit users' body is not something unique for BlackBeard and every single person in the world can do it if he/she knows the secret, as the captains of BlackBeard Pirates are doing it.

    About the World Government, it's true that they would know it. And it makes BlackBeard Pirates unique, not BlackBeard. As we can clearly see in the quotation from Jinbei, he's talking about his crew, and not necessarily Teach. So now they are able to do it, but World Government isn't... now it would be interesting to start this discussion here, and it's really worth it to be mentioned. But let's just assume that World Government does know about this, but they are not able to do it. Still as I said, it will prove that they (BlackBeard Pirates) are special, not that BlackBeard himself is unique and special. So this being special can come from knowing a knowledge or something that World Government is not aware of, or that Teach's Fruit, Yami Yami no Mi has an ability to affect the people around it and give them an ability to obtain those Devil Fruits. (The second one is the real thing that condemn the Many in one theory and if we assume that World Government knows everything, then there's a really a problem with this theory, and if we assume that World Government is not God and would not know every single thing in this world, then we can say So still it's really possible to say they would be wrong and there may be some people who could use this ability of Yami Yami no Mi. And being able to extract the Devil Fruit out of users' dead body, and being able to control more than one devil fruit at the same time, are both at the same level that World Government would be aware of it. So it's really hard to say they don't know about this. It's a great point here that you mentioned, but still as I said, when we're focusing on details, we're just taking it so much hard for Oda. I don't thing he has planned for every single thing in this series. But I don't think it's as much as a problem that you think here. The only serious problem that's really a big problem, and the explanations behind it would not be so much plausible, is weird body of BlackBeard that this theory can't provide a great reason for that.)

    But as we can't ignore the awareness of WG as you said, we still can't ignore that the crew of BlackBeard are taking the Devil Fruits Abilities (Most possible is that they are first extracting the Devil Fruit from their body) by themselves and they are using them for themselves, the first thing that I can say is that they know a way to take the Devil Fruit out of the body of the dead user, and then simply eat it. Jesus Burgess is the best example and I think the only good proof here that shows it he was able to do it to Sabo and since BlackBeard himself said that he wanted that Devil Fruit for his captain and not himself. So we have:

    • (Strength Point for the theory) The process of taking devil fruits out of dead user's body is not unique to BlackBeard, since all of his captains and crew are able to do it alone and they are normal people obviously. And since we've never seen that they bring it to BlackBeard, or it was never said that they are bringing it to BlackBeard, and since it was clearly mentioned by Jinbei that they are taking them by themselves, and with themselves, we can say it clearly that they take it without the help of Yami Yami no Mi, and they eat alone. And the visible evidence, except some words, we have Jesus Burgess who was going to actually kill Sabo and really did hope to take his Devil Fruit after he did eat Mera Mera no Mi.
    • (Problem with the theory) WG that without no doubt (Almost) knows every single thing in this world with more than 1000 years of history, obviously will be aware of this important and great idea to how take the Devil Fruits from the dead users of them. But since there's no evidence to imply that they can do it, we can assume they can't, so it makes BlackBeard Pirates unique, but not BlackBeard himself, obviously
    Now, since both of these evidence that we have, are implying something completely opposite, there must be 2 reasons: 1- Oda may has ignored one of them: In this case I think ignoring both of those points, is wrong and would be a problem but I think WG not being aware of this, is what we've reached with the conclusion that WG is aware of everything, and especially something this much important. But I think the visible evidence about BlackBeard's crew being able to take the Devil Fruits out of users' dead body, is making it more obvious that the process of taking Devil Fruits out of dead users, is not unique to BlackBeard. Also the quote from Jinbei is making it obvious that it's they, not he. 2- There's a reason behind: In this case, for WG, there'll be an explanation that, if there's not revealed anything about WG being able to do that, it doesn't necessarily mean that they actually don't do it. But I won't go far, it's just an assumption and as long as there's no evidence for that, I say that they know, but they don't. Or they just don't know anything about it, in both options, it's not completely acceptable, since we're using the same way (WG being aware of everything) to have a strength point for this theory and if we say it's possible that they may not know somethings like this, with this much importance, it'd hurt the theory of @Admiral Ryokugyu and many people in one theory in another way. But still it's possible that they may be some explanations behind it. About BlackBeard's crew, the explanation that can help Yami Yami no Mi unique ability theory about BlackBeard, is that they are collecting it and bringing it to BlackBeard, but as I mentioned it many times, there's nothing to imply that, but still it's an explanation and if it goes that way, there'll be no problem, since if there's no evidence, it doesn't necessarily mean it would come out wrong, but right, at this moment, the most plausible idea is that they (The crew of BlackBeard) are taking the devil fruits out of users' dead bodies and eating them themselves.

    I completely agree with this part.

    I think it's better to not talk about ambiguous parts, since when we know nothing about how they are extracting DFs, we literally don't have any evidence to directly imply something clear. We have Jinbei's quote, Jesus Burgess trying to kill Sabo even after he'd eaten Mera Mera no Mi, and also we have Black Carpet over WhiteBeard, but none of them are showing something obvious to us. There may be various theories about this, but still they won't be able to convince people, since most of the parts will be just some farther explanations that are not based on any clue. So it's better to focus on the parts that the theory can provide strong evidence for them, mentioning ambiguous parts like this, won't even help the theory, but will have no results, since everything is just based on various interpretations from vague evidence. But still it won't change the fact that important information (Like weird body) would be a problem if we ignore them. About gathering Devil Fruits, I don't think it's as much as effective as that part. It's not only a problem for many people in one theory, but also a really big problem for Yami Yami no Mi unique ability theory.

    First, when Jinbei says “how...” it won't prove that nobody has done this during all of these 1000 years. It will be a proof for that it's not been done during this current era, but when we're talking about like thousand year of One Piece world, the only ones who are actually aware of something this much important, are World Government. And the part how would more emphasize on circumstance of it, not the history of that action during these 1000 years.

    Yami Yami no Mi theory would also have problem to explain this. When we're saying it's only for BlackBeard Pirates, it means that they are able to do it, and not necessarily Teach who's eaten Yami Yami no Mi, this completely makes it obvious that the ability to obtain is not unique. Since any human, is able to do that, and there's no need to have Yami Yami no Mi. It completely brings it out from unique ability of that Fruit. So no need to be a person with weird body or a person who has Yami Yami no Mi to take Devil Fruits out of dead users. Even a normal person is able to do it. Now the questions is that: Why only BlackBeard Pirates? the only way to explain this is clearly that they know something, that the others don't know. They've found a way to obtain the Devil Fruits from users after killing them. And we know that how they would come back again, and again be available for the next generation. The perfect example is Ace. Now Yami Yami no Mi theorist would relate it to BlackBeard's Awakening that can affect his crew and they would be able to obtain Devil Fruits and that's why they can do it and they are unique, and that's why WG isn't able to do it even though they may know about it. So actually BlackBeard Pirates being unique is coming from BlackBeard being unique, though still it's just an assumption and an explanation, no information is there. But many people in one theorists would say that BlackBeard Pirates are the only ones, who could completely figure out the secret of it, and that's why only they can do it.

    Since there's no requirement for obtaining a devil fruit, and you should just be a member of BlackBeard Pirates, it makes it clear that they actually know something, that the others don't know, or maybe Teach's unique ability is giving them an ability, to obtain others Devil Fruit after killing them. The first one is more acceptable, in my opinion.

    To be honest, I see some problems with this theory, but when we're seeing the overall result, it's true that some problems are there, like weird body and theory can't explain them, and some ambiguous discussion can be found in some parts, such as this part. And also there may be some other details, but when we're comparing this theory with others, it's superior in overall. But if you ask me, still the other side, Yami Yami no Mi is still quite probable in some parts. And sometimes it's really hard to decide which is more acceptable. But most of times, and in most of parts, I'd agree with it, since it doesn't focus much on details, we need to accept that Oda is not God, and One Piece is not perfect, so ignoring details would not hurt much.
     
    Marco Polo and General Zoro like this.
  3. gboxrkw

    Well-Known Member
    Kenbunshoku Haki Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    253
    Trophy Points:
    2,900
    Gender:
    Male
    Welcome to OPF :)
     
  4. Jawahib

    Both Exotic and Professor
    Busoshoku Haki YouTube Team
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    5,050
    Gender:
    Male
    Woah, mad respect for the text wall.

    Before I get to the technicalities I'd like to say that I'm focusing more on the ideas/evidence pertinent to this theory, and am trying to keep the perspective of "is this theory consistent with this piece of evidence?" when I respond. So I'll talk a lot more about the things the relate to a "many people in one" theory or this specific take on it with the absorbed triplets. The only times I aim to mention a Yami Yami no Mi based theory are simply when I feel this theory cannot account for that evidence but those theories are examples of ones that can.
    The fact that I agree with a Yami Yami no Mi based theory is irrelevant to any of the points I'm making, and as much as I'd love to have such a discussion (if you're super keen feel free to make a "BB theory comparison" thread and tag me in it), I don't want to clog this theory's thread by something that's not directly related to it.

    OK, so your argument hinges on the fact that Jinbe states that it's the Blackbeard Pirate Crew, and not Teach himself. This implies that whatever technique/method is available to the BB pirates, Teach himself will not be necessary. Of course, it's not laid out as fact, so we can only assume. Now, you do a fantastic job analysing the consequences of this assumption, to the extent that you actually state the very reason why I think this implication is misleading, and that the most likely explanation in fact lies with Teach's Devil Fruit. Because to me, there are several possible choices with different conclusions when it comes to this thing. Since you've listed most of them yourself, I won't need to go into much detail, so I'll try keep to bare bones just to get my point across.

    The first route is to say that whatever method Blackbeard's crew uses to extract Devil Fruits has nothing to do with Blackbeard at all. It's some totally other method. All they have to do is tickle the corpse's pinky toes and out comes the Devil Fruit. This raises a problem. How are they the first? What makes them special? Blackbeard's crew is not one of science and research, it's not one full of intelligent crew members, and it's not one that would be inclined to devise/discover such a technique or technology. How did they beat the WG, who would have been searching for a discovery like this for centuries, and who currently have the mind of Vegapunk available to make such scientific progress as this in the field of DF research? If the method was known, it is a plot hole that the World Government has not exploited it when there is no feasible reason why they wouldn't. If it was not known; well this is so unlikely that it almost becomes a plot hole as you'd have to come up with some satisfactory answer for those above questions. Additionally, if it is in fact something new that has been discovered/developed, it stands to reason that the World Government would be pouring a huge amount of resources into learning this method, yet they don't seem to even acknowledge it as a possibility. It'd be ludicrously unlikely if Jinbe knew it existed but they didn't, and even less likely that they'd know about it but make no effort to understand it. Don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to portray this in terms of fact and fiction, but in terms of how I see them as probabilities and likelihoods.
    This option enables "many people in one" theories to survive rather well; as whatever factors influence that theory would have no bearing on this particular problem. But it ignores the almost screaming connection in that a captain who has harvested a Devil Fruit from a corpse has a crew with a way to harvest a Devil Fruit from a corpse.

    The second route is to say that Blackbeard himself has some part to play. So what part is that? Well, the main schools of thought are, as has been discussed, potentially a "many people in one" theory, or a "Yami Yami no Mi based" theory. As I've said before (and you said you agreed), a "many people in one" theory wouldn't fit here. What would Blackbeard's unique, unduplicatable physical properties lend to his crewmates trying to copy the same achievement? Surely a "Yami Yami no Mi based" explanation is more likely. His Devil Fruit could well have an ability that's portable that allows them to achieve what he did with Whitebeard or, more likely (imo, as it requires less plot contrivance), he himself must physically be there to perform the extraction, so the crew hunts them, captures them, and delivers them to Blackbeard for extraction.

    Burgess claiming he'll take Sabo's Mera Mera from him sadly doesn't definitively support any perspective. If you take it more simplistically you could assume he's got the means on him to immediately extract the DF, but this has the logical flaws I've already mentioned. There's nothing to rule out the possibility that he meant he was going to capture him and take him back to Blackbeard.
    Actually I just looked into this now, and it turns out Burgess was keen on Luffy's Fruit after seeing him use Leo Bazooka on Doflamingo. All he says is "I'll come and [kill you] and your Gum Gum Fruit will be mine!", and then later to Sabo he thinks "I won't let you get away with that Mera Mera no Mi power". This back and forth between Devil Fruit desires, while it could be justified contextually, to me indicates that Burgess would have taken both if he could, and while you could come up with reasons otherwise, I think the most likely explanation is that he was willing to take more than he could handle; meaning he wasn't just thinking about himself (unless you believe BB's method also allows them to have multiple DFs too).

    I've said little by way of reasoning that you haven't already, and without concrete data there's not much more to discuss unless there's more information for us to scrutinise that hasn't been mentioned yet.
     
    Marco Polo, General Zoro and Behnam like this.
  5. Behnam

    The one who wants CHOIce
    Busoshoku Haki Member of the Season
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    1,299
    Trophy Points:
    4,775
    Gender:
    Male
    Well... I think it's good to see those explanations from you, as you mentioned, I don't think any other thing is remained to discuss about. But about these two routes I want to mention somethings here:
    About the first, we got these:
    1. They kill the user
    2. They somehow take the Devil Fruit out of users' body
    3. And just simply they have the Devil Fruit, and can eat it, or bring it to the others.
    About the 1st part, as I've already said, there can be that Oda has just ignored that, and it's acceptable for me since it was never said that the WG is aware of everything in thing world, but there's a possibility also for that, and also what's the problem with discovering a thing for the first time? So it's not even ignoring since it was never explained like that. We think it's possible to be like that, so I think this part won't be much of a problem here. The second question as you said is: How? and we don't know it. Dressrosa was a special arc, Oda told us how Devil Fruits would come back after the death of users, it was told because there was Mera Mera no Mi that was appeared suddenly in Doflamingo's hands. And it was revealed exactly in the same arc that Jesus Burgess was going to take Devil Fruit (Or corpse of Sabo and Luffy) and eat one of them and bring another for his crew (Or just bring both of them to BlackBeard for extraction process). About what's the evidence for this route, we got Jinbei's quote that's making this part more reasonable, though still we can't expect every word from Oda to be exact, it can be that he meant they would bring it to BB and then take them for themselves, but that would be far-fetched here, since it's completely pointing toward themselves. As much as we can't ignore those problems, we can't ignore these points here. Also, we're aware of that Devil Fruits got souls and they will go and would live in another Fruit after user's death, so we know that there's no need to tickle the corpse's pinky toes since we're already aware of that the Devil Fruits can come out of corpses and it would make our hopes more to find a way to take it. Obviously, it doesn't necessarily have to be BlackBeard to do the extraction part.
    About the second, we got these:
    1. They kill the user
    2. They bring it to BlackBeard for him to do the extraction part, since he must be physically there
    3. And just simply they have the Devil Fruit, and can eat it, or let the others eat it, therefore crew can be more powerful, and also BlackBeard
    Now the similarity we have here is that for both of those possibilities, we have the killing part. And also that BlackBeard might use them for his own crew. But when it comes to the process of obtaining the Devil Fruit, that's when the difference begins. We got some information that some of them would make this part more reasonable than the first one, and also some others that would make this less possible. We know that BlackBeard got Yami Yami no Mi, so it must not be so much of a problem to absorb the soul of the Devil Fruit and put it in another Fruit, or any other thing. It makes it obvious that why WG or any other person in history wasn't able to do it, it also would have an explanation that why Jinbei did say how, also, it still has another explanation about Jesus Burgess and since we've not seen what he would do it to the dead body (Bringing it to BlackBeard or do something to take it himself) it's quite possible for this part to be true. Despite all of those information, we know that BlackBeard did do the extraction part against WhiteBeard, so it can be that he did teach his crew how to do it, or maybe it's just that he's the only person who's able to do it. It explains all of those things.

    The problem is, it's impossible to be certain about those ways. We've never seen BlackBeard pirates during the process of taking out the Devil Fruit out of dead users, or to bring them to BlackBeard. I don't think there's a problem with figuring something out for the first time, that BlackBeard might has done it, but it would be more reasonable if there was a reason behind it, though not necessarily. That quotation from Jinbei, telling us about the process of coming back and shape as another Devil Fruit for the next generation and everything is making it more reasonable to be a way for extracting Devil Fruits. Because until then, we thought BlackBeard was unique, but it apparently seems that his crew are unique. So I know we can give explanation about it and point it toward BlackBeard being unique, and it was good to discuss about it here with you, but when we ignore somethings (We can ignore the opposite parts, for both of those ways), we can reach what we want, either the first way, or the second.

    Since I said what I had in my mind, and since there's not much to discuss right now, as you said, I don't have much to converse. But let me hear your opinion in anything, at anytime you had free time. Also, it would be adorable, if we could hear others' opinion in this case as well. By the way, it was good to see those happenings from your perspective.
     
  6. Admiral Ryokugyu

    OPForum's villain
    Busoshoku Haki Kenbunshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2018
    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    1,138
    Trophy Points:
    3,400
    Gender:
    Male
    @Jawahib @Behnam @Yuuzume @Seiryu @Juggy

    Guys i apologize for not participating in this awesome discussion. It's because i was working on 2 new theories. It's my pleasure to read your discussion. Lemme grab some popcorn ..
     
    Juggy and Jawahib like this.
  7. General Zoro

    Well-Known Member
    Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2017
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    1,430
    Gender:
    Male
    From the scan, it heavily implied that Blackbeard's crew are also able to take DF powers from dead DF users which ties in better with Burgess saying he will take the Mera Mera from Sabo.
     
    Behnam likes this.
  8. Jawahib

    Both Exotic and Professor
    Busoshoku Haki YouTube Team
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    5,050
    Gender:
    Male
    The thing is; this Dressrosa explanation together with Smiley's death actually creates a smallish plot hole as well, and it's the same one I mentioned earlier. Of course, there are theories and explanations we can contrive to get around the plot hole, but if everyone who ate a Devil Fruit and died transformed a nearby fruit into that same Devil Fruit, this is something that without doubt would have been exploited by someone already. Because honestly, it's perfectly within reason that the Blackbeard pirates have no method at all; that they simply exploit the natural behaviour of Devil Fruits and have a normal Fruit on hand to transform into the DF when they kill the user. But why then are they treated as special? There will have been people much smarter and more ambitious than the BB pirates who would have known this and exploited it long ago to create some unstoppable empire. There's no reason at all that the WG wouldn't have done this. A monopoly on Devil Fruits would make them unstoppable, period. And this is all based off the simple observation of Smiley's death. Unless there is an explanation that makes his death's circumstance some kind of exception, it breaks the logic of many factions in the OP world that they wouldn't have exploited it.

    You've got top-tier analysis and the fact that we simply disagree on the more likely explanations is perfectly fine by me. It was great to hear your side of things too :)
     
    Behnam likes this.
  9. Seiryu

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,629
    Likes Received:
    1,942
    Trophy Points:
    8,620
    @Behnam In regards to chapter 650, the raw text says that the crew (context implies it is Blackbeard himself) has the "means of stealing and taking" the "[abilities] of killed [ability users]" (the words "abilities" and "ability users" are in quotation marks in the raw). Naturally this doesn't read smoothly with a completely literal translation, so accurate translation from the posted page. So nothing from this chapter implies the "absorb" aspect from the wiki.

    I am fluent enough to go anywhere in Japan alone, but I do not live there.

    @Admiral Ryokugyu I look forward to reading the new theories!
     
  10. Korikaze

    Member
    Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Gender:
    Male
    I have another possible Black Beard speculation. That Black Beard is Luffy's blood uncle from his mother's side. It would explain why Black Beard respects and seem so interested in Luffy. If Luffy's mother was Marshall D. Teach then she would be a Marshall D. as well. Likely she would be attracted to other men with the will of D. Luffy's mother being Blackbeard's sis would explain why he has a beef with Dragon the guy who knocked up his sister and took her child to give to his father Garp. When you think about it, seem like Garp was hiding Luffy as a child.

    Let's say Blackbeard had a sister, a twin sister who was more infamous than him. Then we he obtained his first devil fruit he could absorb her as well as her love for Luffy. In the opening song for the Dressrosa Arc I thought it was strange that a cut scene came up with Blackbeard asking Luffy to come into the darkness.

    Garp kept Luffy's mother ID a secret the same reason he kept other's from knowing Dragon was his father because she is likely extremely dangerous. To be honest, she could be one of the ancient weapons which would explain why Luffy can somewhat hear voices of sea kings or Luffy's mother was killed or believed to be killed in action, maybe fleeing from Dragon or trying to get Luffy back from Dragon. However if anyone knew that Luffy was related to Blackbeard it would only gain him more enemies and it would made Ace have a slight indifference towards Luffy. Until I see Blackbeard cause personal harm to Luffy, I have to believe they are related. If they are related, it is also possible Blackbeard took out White Beard for Luffy. It would explain why Blackbeard thought it was too early for Luffy to call himself a Yonko because the plan was for Blackbeard to allow Luffy to "defeat" him to become a Yonko. Blackbeard didn't become active until he first met Luffy. Maybe that was the signal it was time for him to help his nephew fulfill what goals he may have and/or help lead him back to his mother.
     
    Seiryu, Juggy and Jawahib like this.
  11. Jawahib

    Both Exotic and Professor
    Busoshoku Haki YouTube Team
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    5,050
    Gender:
    Male
    Hey man, welcome to the forum :)
    I feel like this theory is so well-developed it could do with its own thread, honestly. This thread's already got enough going on (@Jawahib) :P
     
  12. Seiryu

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,629
    Likes Received:
    1,942
    Trophy Points:
    8,620
    Welcome to the forum @Korikaze! I gotta agree that you should start your own thread, since you have a well thought out theory.
     
  13. dasha_li

    Well-Known Member
    Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Gender:
    Female
    Hello! I have registered here just to drop some images I have found really interesting during reading manga. And because I had a huuuge need to share them with someone else ^_^
    I must say I was a fan of the Cerberus theory but a theory of Admiral Ryokugyu sounds more elegant.
    Anyway. I was watching anime and reading manga and suddenly - boom! - I have noticed that Blackbeard's teeth are different in some scenes. And I was like "Wooooow! Haven't anyone else noticed that?" So I have started to look closer, again and again. And here are some pictures with my comments. (Really mind-blowing pictures! How could I look at them before and didn't notice?!)

    Tl;dr. On the different frames there may be different teeth, eyebrows, bracelets, rings, necklace.
    And it's not only some small images. It's close-ups! And not once, but recurring! Within the same arc, same setting, sometimes even within the same chapter!
    So to me it is not even a question: is it an editors mistake or Teach has some dark weird secret? To me the question is: what is his secret? Because it's existing is already proven to me so solid as it can be proven by a person like Oda using playful faint hints.

    0223-017.jpg 0225-011.jpg 0235-010.jpg 0237-010.jpg 0440-017.jpg 0440-019.jpg 0441-010.jpg 0441-011.jpg 0441-022.jpg 0441-023.jpg 0441-026.jpg 0524-018.jpg 0542-012.jpg 0542-013.jpg 0543-003.jpg 0543-018.jpg 0543-019.jpg 0544-002.jpg 0579-004.jpg 0579-008.jpg 0581-015.jpg
     
    Seiryu, Juggy and Admiral Ryokugyu like this.
  14. Admiral Ryokugyu

    OPForum's villain
    Busoshoku Haki Kenbunshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2018
    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    1,138
    Trophy Points:
    3,400
    Gender:
    Male
    THANK YOU !

    This is some good evidence @dasha_li , and thank you for reading the theory.
     
  15. Seiryu

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,629
    Likes Received:
    1,942
    Trophy Points:
    8,620
    Welcome to the forum! That's definitely one hell of a collection there. Rehashing previously discussed stuff...To give some context to Oda's real life situation at the time, he was still drawing EVERYTHING that moves in the manga. He was so obsessive, he only let his assistants draw the backgrounds (even bullets, cannonballs, etc. had to be drawn by Oda). This is on top of his various responsibilities of making sure the anime follows what he wants, promotion WSJ/One Piece events, being a family man, etc. It's actually surprising there aren't more errors on Oda's part.

    I would say it wasn't an editor issue since their job is more to oversee the plot and flow of the story as a whole. The overall pattern is to have the top two teeth missing, so for sure the scenes where these are filled in is just a mistake on Oda's part. I won't argue against the theory, but the extreme exhaustion (physically and mentally) makes me biased to lean towards it being one of the few mistakes Oda made ever.
     
  16. Kia

    Kia
    Wacky weeb witch
    Busoshoku Haki Kenbunshoku Haki Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,047
    Likes Received:
    941
    Trophy Points:
    3,050
    Okay that’s presupposing that Cavendish and Hakuba are different people but he just has MPD/DID (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...entity-disorder-multiple-personality-disorder) that usually manifests when he loses consciousness/control to my understanding. They were never separate bodies or people to begin with so it’s a psychological not physical issue. The difference in appearance is to show Hakuba’s “demonic” nature and differentiate the personalities, as far as I can tell.
     
    Yuuzume likes this.
  17. Yuuzume

    Slayer Candidate
    Busoshoku Haki
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    924
    Trophy Points:
    3,500
    Gender:
    Male
    Precisely.Working on the idea that Teach has two brothers residing inside his body,the issue ends up being psychological.In the end,both with Cavendish and Teach,we have several people contained in a single body,which they can all move.So the issue isn't really an entire person being inside another one,but just his conscience.Now,an alternate personality is fundamentally different than a unique conscience of a separate person,but we've seen that they can co exist and show themselves at the same time (Cavendish's and Hakuba's personalities) so the practical result is the extremely similar at the very least.

    Now,the difference between Hakuba and Teach's brothers is that Hakuba can take control of Cavendish's body when his conscience is stronger than his,while Teach's brothers technically require his permission since he has to consciously use the powers of the darkness fruit to bring them to the surface.The powers of the darkness fruit are Teach's alone so he is the one who controls who's in charge of each part of the body at any given time.And another key difference,according to which this theory operates on,isthat Hakuba's personality is fighting an inner war with Cavendish's,whereas Teach and his brothers are so perfectly in sync that no one (other than Admiral Ryokugyu) has noticed the switch happening so far.But other than that,the technicalities of how the body switching works should be the same in both cases,as psychological issue and not a physical one.
     
  18. Kia

    Kia
    Wacky weeb witch
    Busoshoku Haki Kenbunshoku Haki Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,047
    Likes Received:
    941
    Trophy Points:
    3,050
    Or you could find a different translation/source? upload_2018-9-11_7-5-50.jpeg It says take away their powers here and that’s vague enough to support either interpretation, methinks.
    upload_2018-9-11_7-8-47.jpeg This one says killing and taking the power “for themselves” so the implication is for the crew, not just Blackbeard. Neither of these says absorbs. For all we know, and what the evidence suggests, that was simply a Wiki writer paraphrasing choice. Not having (or personally being able to read, unfortunately) the original language in front of me, I have to rely on these translations. But it seems like the absorption point may be moot.
     
    dasha_li likes this.
  19. Kia

    Kia
    Wacky weeb witch
    Busoshoku Haki Kenbunshoku Haki Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,047
    Likes Received:
    941
    Trophy Points:
    3,050
    But the difference is that we’re speaking of physical manifestations and properties here because unless I’ve missed the point entirely—it’s that they once had separate bodies thus they can hold the separate powers. Having once had that autonomy, their function wouldn’t be analogous because they wouldn’t integrate the same way. Rather they would need to find a way to integrate both physically and psychologically. And Cavenish/Hakuba have only the one body to control and are a split consciousness. Whereas, from my understanding of the theory, there’s more than one body so it’s not really analogous. It’s more like having conversations with other people in a darkened room than in a meditative state with your alter, I would think. Wait, I’m working this out. He’s a walking black hole of sorts so they’re inside him and telepathy has been suggested...

    No, I still see all three bodies and persons as whole entities and separate. Thus, it’s a community and a cooperative experience. It would make Blackbeard a helluva leader/coordinator/conductor. So there’s the psychology behind how do you convince them to go along with it? But I don’t see the analogy. Sorry. :(
     
    Yuuzume likes this.
  20. Jawahib

    Both Exotic and Professor
    Busoshoku Haki YouTube Team
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    5,050
    Gender:
    Male
    The absorption point does not rely on the word "absorb". You can make a similar series of logical conclusions if the translation indicates in any way that the Blackbeard Pirates have a means to extract Devil Fruits from users, since the most likely explanation would be that the means used to extract a DF from one user (WB) is the means used to extract the DFs from many users, seemingly without limit.

    The word 'absorb' only points us in the direction of the Yami Yami no Mi, but we have enough stimulus to take us along those lines anyway. I could just as easily say that the Fruit that temporarily "takes away" Ace's DF power and "takes in everything" is the same one that "takes away" the DF power from a user's corpse. You could replace "takes away" with "extract" or "absorb" or "takes their abilities" and it'd mean just about the same thing.
     

Share This Page