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Blackbeard's secret

Discussion in 'One Piece Theories' started by Admiral Ryokugyu, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Kia

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    Okay I misunderstood as it seemed you were hung up there. But there’s also the point to be made in those translations that the fruits were being taken for the crew, not just for Blackbeard. Please forgive me if I’m misattributing ideas to you but I thought you stated or implied at some point that it was otherwise due to Jimbei’s statement. Also, I tend to get caught up in things like that, it’s the linguist in me. When it seems like word choices/phrase are making a difference, I perk up and start digging. *sigh* Everyone has their quirks.

    @Admiral Ryokugyu This is a very well thought out theory. Thank you for taking the time and effort to present it. I know I’m way late to the discussion and may seem to be nitpicking, especially on the “how does he change/control bodies issue?” But it’s always easier to be inspired by the magnificent thoughts of others than to create your own so please take it as the compliment it is. ^_^
     
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  2. Yuuzume

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    Well,I'll attempt to explain what I'm talking about.Let's go a step back from thinking about "bodies",and think about the space surrounding them.Think of that space as a container.
    Untitled.png
    Now then,that occupies that space (fills that container) are the bodies we were talking about.Let's talk about Cavendish and Hakuba first,shall we? Both of them are two separate consciences but they both share one single body.So the container ends up looking like this:
    Untitled1.png
    Now that we've established what the container is filled with,we can proceed to the issue of who is in control of it.The consciences of Cavendish and Hakuba are in a constant state of turmoil due to them fighting each other in order to gain supremacy,and therefore control,over the one body they share.
    Untitled C1.png
    Depending on who wins out which body parts in the end,the result could look something like this:
    Untitled Caven.png
    So,let's make a little summary of Cavendish/Hakuba before we move on to Teach.

    Cavendish/Hakuba:
    1) One body = One set of abilities
    2) Two consciences
    3) The two consciences are not in agreement so they fight over the control of the body
    4) Each conscience can control the separate parts it has won over

    The most important ones are the first and last ones,but the one we're dealing with right now is the last one as we'll see.Now let's move on to Teach.Now,if Teach was like Cavendish,then the same step-by-step line of thinking would lead us to the following result:
    Untitled Teach 1.png
    But as we know,Teach isn't like Cavendish in the sense that he and his brothers possess separate bodies.So Teach,who has control over the the container (space) has several options with which to fill it with:
    Untitled Teach 1-2.png
    Compared to Cavendish'd situation,where two consciences are figthing over the control of one body,Teach doesn't have to choose which conscience controls which part (since each conscience has its own body),but simply chooses which body part fills the container.For example,he can choose one out of three left arms to occupy the space at any given time,each arm possessing the ability of its respective body.With that line of thinking,he's how Teach's situation actually ends up being:
    Untitled Teach 3.png
    So,let's summarize to have a clearer picture about Teach too.

    Teach:
    1) Three bodies = Three sets of abilities
    2) Three consciences
    3) The three consciences are in agreement so Teach can freely choose whose body parts occupy the respective spaces of the container.
    4) Each conscience can control its respective parts that may occupy a space of the container.

    Now then,let's take the above picture as reference to see how Teach's body switching and abilities work.According to it,at that given time,Teach can use the darkness fruit powers with his head and body,the quake fruit powers with one of his arms and one of his legs and can use no power with the rest of his limbs.So,suppose that at that moment,he decides to switch bodies in order to use the darkness fruit's powers with his powerless arm.He would simply remove the arm of his powerless brother inside of him:
    Untitled Teach 4.png
    and then put his own arm (Teach's,with the darkness fruit abilities) in its place:
    Untitled Teach 5.png
    This switch happens in a split second and looks completely natural thanks to what Admiral Ryokugyu refers to as a osrt of brotherly synchronization that allows them to pull it off efficiently enough to trick everyone into thinking that Teach can wield multiple devil fruit abilities.That's far as Teach's switching goes.Now finally,let's compare the two cases.

    Cavendish/Hakuba:
    1) One body = One set of abilities
    2) Two consciences
    3) The two consciences are not in agreement so they fight over the control of the body
    4) Each conscience can control the respective parts it has won over

    VS

    Teach:
    1) Three bodies = Three sets of abilities
    2) Three consciences
    3) The three consciences are in agreement so Teach can freely choose whose body parts occupy the respective spaces of the container.
    4) Each conscience can control its respective parts that that may have been chosen to occupy a space of the container.

    As you say,the two cases are fundamentally different,and actually opposites in a way.Cavendish can not switch bodies,but he can switch the conscience that controls parts of the single body,whereas Teach can't switch the conscience controlling each body but he can switch the bodies that occupy the container.That's because,like you say,Cavendish and Hakuba are two personalities inhabiting one body and Teach and his brothers are three separates bodies with their own personality inhabiting the same space/container.But as far as how Teach can operate after the switch happens,we can still compare the two cause this is the one point in which they are the same.I'm talking about the last point/characteristic,the end result is "each conscience controlling the/its respective parts which it has won over/have been chosen to occupy the container".The only difference there is that Cavendish and Hakuba fight ach other while Teach and his brothers are in agreement.

    I don't if I made things clearer or even blurrier than before,but I guess we'll have to find that out.



     
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  3. Kia

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    So I want to applaud but it would come off as snarky when it’s the exact opposite. This was so. freaking. Awesome. You explained your point quite well and made mine at the same time as you said in the end but I do understand what you’re saying now so mission accomplished. I see how it could work and get why you would reference the example. So thanks (it’s allowed in this thread) for the work. It was super well presented and very clear. When explained this way, my mind even accepts this part.

    Sort of. What’s not clicking for me is why the container doesn’t nullify the DF properties of the brothers but I may have missed that earlier in the thread. I know it was mentioned, I just don’t recall a solution and well, there was a lot to cover. I’m not expecting you to answer that, obviously. You can’t be expected to know everything lol.
     
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  4. Yuuzume

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    I'm glad I didn't make the situation seem even murkier and that I could help out.And you're welcome,no worries.Thank you very much for appreciating it like this.

    Well,to answer that,I'd need to talk about something I didn't talk about previously,which is the properties of the container.The container has the same properties as the body of the person that occupies it,so the each contaner part possesses the same properties as the part occupying it.A simple example would be Aokiji.His container has the same properties as his body so it has the same properties as ice:
    Aokiji 1.png
    Teach's container respectively has the properties of darkness (can cancel out abilities,etc).But only the parts of the container than contain Teach's body parts have those properties.Let's take a look at an example of Teach using both his darkness and quake powers at the same time:
    Change 2.png
    In this case,only Teach's body and one of arms and legs have darkness properties.It's not like the whole container has the properties of the darkness fruit at all times.But the question in this case,is why are the parts that have those properties not nullify the powers of the parts that have quake properties since they're in contact with them.The answer to that is that Teach has to consciously negate a person's powers,it doesn't happen automatically.As evidence of that,WB's powers weren't nullified when he grabbed Teach's head during the Marinefold war:
    p_00009.jpg
    So Teach has to consciously activate his abilities to negate someone's abilities.There's also the speculation that he needs to touch a person with his hand for it to happen,but it doesn't really matter in this case.Since it's not something that happens unconsciously,Teach is able to wield both powers at the same time freely.I'm not sure if I managed to answer your question Kia,but I hope you're at least less confused than before.
     
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  5. Marco Polo

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    A bit off topic but I think this is a really interesting way of looking at Cavendish and Hakuba. I'd like to add my own two cents if that's alright?

    I personally see Cavendish and Hakuba as more of a Bruce Banner/Hulk-type ability where Hakuba (Hulk) comes out under certain conditions, but as he gets stronger it becomes more difficult for Cavendish (Banner) to stop him from "coming out". We only see Cavendish battle Hakuba once, and that's when he wakes up while Hakuba is in control. However, from that battle and the other things we know, Cavendish is clearly the dominant personality - he seems more able to take control from Hakuba than Hakuba can from Cavendish. The fact that Hakuba doesn't come out every time he falls asleep is also an indicator that Cavendish is generally the one in control. As for them controlling the body at the same time, I don't think the two of them get along well enough to share the body - it's an all or nothing situation.

    Now as for the theory itself, there are issues with it and from reading through this discussion it seems they've all been picked out so I don't really need to re-state them. There's the issue of the "abnormal body structure", which wouldn't have been possible until he ate the Yami Yami no Mi, and I think that flaw is what really harms the plausibility of the theory. The only loophole for it is that Marco both knew that the Yami Yami no Mi would cause Teach's body structure to become abnormal, which is why he stated it without any surprise (I can't remember if anyone suggested this or not). However, it didn't seem like any of the Whitebeard Pirates recognised the fruit as the Yami Yami no Mi besides Teach, so that loophole is no longer open.

    The other issue I have with this theory is that the darkness granted by the Yami Yami no Mi is effectively a vaccuum, meaning that there's no air. Even if Teach lets his brothers out when he's not fighting, he'd either need to send them in there with oxygen tanks (are those a thing in One Piece?) or they'd all have to be really good at holding their breath. To keep two people inside that darkness for any prolonged period of time brings with it a high probability that those two people suffocate and die.

    This explanation requires Teach to absorb his own body parts in order to replace them with a brother's limb, which causes a bit of a problem. Teach's complete body is the acting vessel for darkness - I'm skeptical as to whether he can absorb parts of his own body into the darkness because of the risk involved (literally absorbing yourself because you don't have complete mastery over the Fruit's power) and all the headaches that risk creates.
     
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  6. Yuuzume

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    #146 Yuuzume, Sep 12, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
    Hakuba does seem to be the weaker conscience of the two,in terms of who's in control of the body,so I agree with you there.I don't know how that balance will be like by the next time we see Cavendish,but the fact that each can take the control of body parts from the other will probably remain unchanged as long as Hakuba exists.As for the two cooperating,it does seem unlikely practically speaking,but it's still hypothetically possible and would be a huge power up for Cavendish.

    This very explanation of how Teach's switching works is based on Admiral Ryokugyu's original speculation that Teach was capable of doing that (absorbing his own body parts and having his brothers' ones take their place) as he states at near the end of his theory.But well,I personally don't really see any problem with Teach being able to absorb his own body parts as long as there is a condition like "All body parts must be in the real world,regardless of whose is which" to avoid Teach becoming a second Uchiha Obito.
     
  7. Kia

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    I’m sorry about the off topic-ness, Sir Marco. I started it and he simply replied/explained to me, relating it back to the theory. I did try to stop straying but I’ve got just a few comments (are you surprised?)lol.

    They've been shown to share the body at the same time. They don't play nice but they share.
    [​IMG]

    So the whole explanation was based on them getting along, not getting along or it was irrelevant? In terms of when they share the body, that is.
     
  8. Yuuzume

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    It's relevant,the explanation is based on them not getting along.If the two of them got along,their situation would be more similar to Teach and his brothers who agree on the whole switching out thing.The explanation was based on the premise that they do no get along with other,so they have to fight over the control of the body parts of the body they share.I can see them getting along better than right now but as long as Hakuba exists,I doubt that the whole premise of "fighting over the control of body parts" will change.
     
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  9. Kia

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    Okay thanks. I was operating under the impression that that was so. I just confused myself when I read MP’s post talking about them cooperating I interpreted it (perhaps wrongly) as saying that the container theory implies the cooperation of Hakuba and Cavendish. Sorry for all the questions. Thanks for answering.
     
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  10. Yuuzume

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    To further releive your confusion,if there is still any,let me reference the summary of Cavendish/Hakuba:

    Cavendish/Hakuba:
    1) One body = One set of abilities
    2) Two consciences
    3) The two consciences are not in agreement so they fight over the control of the body
    4) Each conscience can control the respective parts it has won over

    The point that concerns us this time is number three.My explanation was based on what we've seen of Cavendish and Hakuba so far,which is a relationship of mental conflict between the two.Even if Cavendish mentally overpowered Hakuba,there hasn't been a sign that they will have a good relationship in the future.I assume that Maruko read all of the comments of our conversation,in one of which I mention the hypothetical scenario of what would happen if Hakuba and Cavendish had teamed up.While the envelopment of a scenario in which Cavendish and Hakuba seems unlikely,them teaming up is another story,as all they would need is a common enemy who would threaten the single body the two share,hence the very existence of both.However,even in that case,the mental clash between the two would most likely not sieze,hence why I based my explanation on the above third point of the summary.

    You're welcome Kia,and please do not worry about the questions.I'm glad I was able to answer at least some of them to an acceptable degree.
     
  11. Kia

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    upload_2018-9-12_14-15-42.gif Seeing the reference to the earlier post spelled out like that reminds me why I shouldn’t try to brain on certain meds lol. Thanks though, Yuuzume; you’ve got the patience of a saint!
     
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  12. Yuuzume

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    For what my opinion is worth,you're being too hard on yourself,your comments so far haven't been anything short of impressive.You're certainly welcome Kia,I'm not certain about the patience part though.But I'm thankful to you for saying so,thank you.
     
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  13. Kia

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    Thanks a lot. You’re a fantastic conversationalist as well. I’m simply comparing myself to the way I used to be before so yeah. That’s a bad habit. I’m working on it. I’m all about admitting faults and improving but that’s not the point and you didn’t ask. Well as for patience, from my perspective, I’ve been making simple mistakes and/or asking things already answered so it takes patience to respond with polite, detailed answers instead of otherwise. I’m not a patient person, Aries and all, so I admire it in others. I’ve had to work very hard to display that characteristic and thus recognize it.
     
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  14. Yuuzume

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    @Kia I apologize for mentioning this on this thread,but I forgot to mention something.Since you seem to have a habit of being hard on yourself,let me give you my opinion on something.It's not anything elaborate that could qualify as a piece of advice,but there's no harm in saying it for whatever it's worth.

    Setting a bar or two for yourself is beneficial as it helps you move more efficiently in the way that you want to as a person and helps you grow by strengthening your resolve.But setting so many bars only results in creating a mental and moral prison that prevents you from moving anywhere.People need freedom.The freedom to grow properly,the freedom to make mistakes and learn,and the freedom that allows you to meet others that will further help you grow.Something that's beneficial if done in moderation can be harmful if done excessively.Since you seemed quite knowledgeable on working according to one of your comments,let me use that as an example.Workign out can be very beneficial to your health if you do it in moderation and take things liek rest into account.But if you work out excessively,you will risk damaging your body.Well,that's just a different way to say "Don't be so hard on yourself".
     
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  15. Yuuzume

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    Thanks for all the compliments,I certainly do appreciate them.Recognizing any faults and attempting to improve is commendable,but don't be hasty or excessively harsh on what constitutes a fault.And one more thing,as someone who has a lot of them,appreciate your faults more.They are there to help you improve,to allow you to see certain things,like your strengths,clearerand remind you to appreciate your strengths and other people more.A person who doesn't know what's bad can't recognize what's good.It's cause we know weakness that we can be weak.Sorry for getting a little abstract but I think I've made my point.Your faults make you who you are and should be used to make you the best "you" you can be,treat them with care.
     
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  16. dasha_li

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    I have googled an original source :) and this link (in japanese)
    194_8c406138721a867101fc633f86ba7d5a.jpg

    Here's the text of the first frame:
    「赤髪」「カイドウ」「ビッグ・マム」に並び
    "四皇"の一人と位置づけられておる...!!!
    憎たらしい男よ...!!!
    Google translate:
    "Red hair" "Kaido" "Big Mom" line up
    It is positioned as one of the "four emperors" ... !!
    A hated man ... !!!

    And here is the text of the second frame (Jinbei's explanation):
    噂によると奴ら今"能力者狩り"に奮起しとる───
    どういう訳か"能力者"を殺しその"能力"を奪い取る術を奴らは持っておるんじゃ・・・!!
    黒ひげ達の狙いはり強い「悪魔の実の能力」......!! 気をつけろ...

    I'm not an expert in japanese but here we can see 噂によると奴ら今"能力者狩り"に奮起しとる─── (According to rumors they are now inspired by "hunt for ability" ─ ─), thanks google translate.
    "能力者狩り" is more like "hunting people with abilities".
    能力 - ability.
    者 - person.
    狩り - same as "gari", "hunter" in 海賊狩りのゾロ, Kaizoku Gari no Zoro, Pirate Hunter Zoro.

    どういう訳か"能力者"を殺しその"能力"を奪い取る術を奴らは持っておるんじゃ・・・!!
    Google translate: For some reason they've got the art of killing "ability" and depriving that "ability" ...!
    殺し here means exactly the act of killing "能力者" (ability people). And 奪い取る (deprive, rob, take away) the "能力" (ability). Also there is 術 - jutsu, art, technique, skill, same kanji as in e.g. Jujutsu martial art.

    黒ひげ達の狙いはり強い「悪魔の実の能力」......!! 気をつけろ...
    Google translate: Aim of the Blackbeards strong "Ability of the devil's fruit" ... .... Be careful ...
    黒ひげ - Blackbeard.
    「悪魔の実の能力」 = 悪魔の実 (Akuma no Mi, Devil Fruit) + 能力 (ability).
     
  17. chanchan

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    so many comments, did not back read on all comments

    this is a good theory, maybe BB is trying to be godlike

    just look at this
    "
    Three-headed Shiva, represents Panchamukha Shiva. It is also known as Trimurti Sadashiva and Maheshmurti. The three heads are said to represent three essential aspects of Shiva — creation, protection, and destruction.
    "
    http://www.imnepal.com/three-headed-hindu-god-shiva-trimukhi-mahadev/
     

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  18. Kia

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    Is your contention that by merging with his brothers he’s trying to be like Shiva or a triple deity? Or is the triple deity thing an entirely separate theory? I’m sorry, I just don’t follow and need clarification. Thanks! ^_^
     
  19. chanchan

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    no, not separate theory, but rather support to OP's theory, base on manga, we see different head/face (base different set of teeth), he also have 3 guns, 3 skull in his pirate flag, some observe different arms (picture of missing ring on his arms also this thread).

    BB may have manage to shift using yami yami fruit, on how he do it, still unknown yet. maybe if possible and if correct, we may see explaination on the future manga episodes
     
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  20. Jahanzaib Akbar

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    Nice theory.
    It got me thinking that black beard and brothers may already have all 3 fruits.
    1_ Yami yami
    2_ Gura Gura and
    3_ fruit with the ability to extract / transfer devil fruit abilities.
     

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