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Complaint. The Strawhats are weak!

Discussion in 'One Piece Manga' started by F.E.A.R., Jul 12, 2019.

  1. F.E.A.R.

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    Since Punk Hazard till the very present in Wano, the Strawhats are presented as a mere nuisance rather than a force to be reckoned with, from the worst generation. I have not seen any single power up (except for Luffy but he's still weak) since the time skip, and every opponent they faced kicked their ass big time before somehow managing to defeat them at the end because of the plot. I haven't seen a 1 on 1 duel since Enies Lobby and Thriller Bark, but the fights pre time skip were executed perfectly compare to post time skip. Since Oda likes to stretch out arcs, and doesn't have the time to write everything, then why not make cannon episodes where the Starwhats train them selves on islands during their journey, instead of them rushing into enemy's territory having a hard time to defeat their opponents?

    What happened to Luffy kicking Big's Mom's ass and defeating Kaido? He got pushed by Big Mom in Gear 4th, turned him to normal and made him unconscious and Kaido one shotted him and made him his bitch. What was the point of Whole Cake Island being the "year of Sanji" only showing his backstory and not getting a single power up? Nami is useless without her Tempo, Robin is also weak, Brook doesn't seem to utilize his DF and Chopper doesn't train in his other forms to become more powerful.

    Luffy does not deserve the title of "Emperor" despite Morgan pushing this propaganda. How many times did he get scared by Big Mom? He couldn't defeat Cracker without the help from Nami, he got owned by Katakuri and somehow magically won in the end. Sure some might say that he deserves the title "Emperor" because he has the power to make friends and alliances that are many under his flag. But are those alliances always with the them at their sight to defend them, to fight for them?

    If it were not for Jimbei, the Power Rangers and Capone Bege, Luffy, Nami, Brook and Chopper should have been dead by now. I was expecting a decent fight from the Strawhats against the Big Mom pirates and Big Mom herself. "But not all were there, Zoro, Usopp, Robin and Franky were in Wano". So what? Even if they were, they wouldn't have stood a chance against the Big Mom pirates and Big Mom herself. The Strawhats as a crew are not ready to face any Emperor and their crew in battle simply because they're too weak to fight them. Take Big Mom and Kaido alone for an example, both are walking Titans, even if the SH's gathered and battled 1 of them solo, they'd still lose.

    Big Mom reminded Luffy what he said to her, but what did he do? He ran like a coward like she said. "But that was because of the plan, get Sanji and run". A decent fight would've been acceptable against Big Mom, so that she would acknowledge Luffy's strength, but that didn't happened. Blackbeard also said that it's too early for him to be an Emperor.

    Now in Wano even if the SH's are all gathered there, I don't think they'll put up a fight against the Beast Pirates. If Luffy wins against Kaido because of the new Haki "that hurts the person from the inside" without his DF awakened and no new moves, just some other animal versions of Gear 4th, it would be a huge disappointment. The same way Madara was made so OP, they had to make his death shit with introducing Kaguara, killing him. At least I think Kaido will get defeated because of this new Haki type and because of the plot, but not Luffy putting a real fight against him.

    Kaido and Big Mom getting defeated by some new type of Haki would be disappointing, big time.

    What's also more disappointing are the fights that are animated and the animation itself (and for some huge miracle it got changed for the Wano arc) but that's for another thread.

    I don't like the way the Strawhats have been portrayed as a weak crew and not making them train during their off time. Take Naruto for an example, despite the 2 years training, a lot of characters still trained (even Naruto himself) after 2 years time skip to get more powerful. I'm not a Naruto fanboy, not a OP fanboy, but watching both shows you can examine both of their flaws (Naruto has to many). OP lacks really good fights, the SH's getting more powerful and stretching arcs for more than 2 years.
     
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  2. Seiryu

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    All of the above points are 100% valid. I would counter though, did you feel the same way when Kuma/Sentoumaru/Kizaru/PX bots all individually man-handled the entire crew? At least Oda isn't force-feeding us fake drama. The crew is taking on people in a completely different tier. Seeing how they overcome a seemingly impossible gap is a big part of the fun.

    I am personally highly skeptical on how rational the updated explanation/power-up is going to be, but at least we get answers in about a year. The latest from Oda is that his current plan is for Wano Kuni to be wrapping up in another 50 or so chapters.

    FYI, I gotta move this to the manga section with the spoilers.

    Edit: and as a fan I can 100% agree that it'd be nice to jump to the real action sooner rather than later.
     
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  3. Pacquiao8

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    This arc should "upgrade" them.
     
  4. PirateKing_D_Luffy

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    #4 PirateKing_D_Luffy, Jul 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    Agree that Oda need to put more light on the potential of Straw Hats as fans we love to know how much strong they have become after the timeskip...

    I believe they have much more potential however the story built-up is focused more on new characters that includes all/enemies of the arc.

    However it is high time to show some good power improvement of the Straw Hats ..be it Zoro Sanji Franky or the rest of the team.

    Even Robin's character was looking strong when she was introduced in one piece..

    Strawhat female characters should be stronger than smoothie would really make it interesting.
     
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  5. F.E.A.R.

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    No I did not feel the same way when Kizaru, Sentomaru and the PX robots kicked their asses (as far as I remember Kuma helped them, he didn't fight them). It was fun to watch, because this showed them that they weren't ready to go to the New World. They couldn't defeat something as weak as the PX robots. Rioting in Whole Cake island just like in Enies Lobby with the whole crew to get Sanji back would have been a lot better. There was no point in splitting the crew apart. I don't like where things Oda has taken. They entered Big Mom's territory. Everyone was afraid of her, even her own children couldn't stop her, nobody could. This proves she's a demigod among humans and other races. Luffy had a hard time defeating Cracker, if it weren't for Nami, he would've lost. This proves that he's still below the Emperors high commanders. Katakuri aslo wrecked him. Everything Luffy did, Katakuri did it better. Luffy ran for his life from Katakuri when he had to regain his Haki to fight. Both fights against Cracker and Katakuri were disappointing. I was really hyped at first for the fights, I hoped that things would be better, but the opposite happened. I think Luffy defeating Cracker and Katakuri solo without anyone interfering would have been so good to see, to see his new power ups. But it didn't happen. Luffy's character has also been dumbed down since the time skip, which I really dislike. He used to think more in fights pre time skip, but I don't know why Oda has changed this. In the oneshot of OP, or whatever it was, Luffy was far smarter, this was changed with the start of OP. I don't like they way he jumps into fights and pulls of random moves without thinking, because this is suicide, and for some stupid reason he gets compliments that he has a sharp mind when it comes to battle, but it's totally the opposite.

    I am also skeptical. The only one got a power upgrade in Wano is Sanji with his raid suit, which I have mixed feelings for. This would make him more dependable on the suit rather pushing himself to train harder and find new techniques use. Also he doesn't want to be affiliated with Germa, the suit also contradicts this.

    1 or 2 upgrades, I don't see anything beyond this. I don't even believe Brook and Chopper will get power ups. And if you remember, Brook cried against Perospero because he was weak and couldn't defeat them, Perospero showed no mercy and wrapped both Chopper and Brook in Candy and left them to die, if it weren't for Pedro's sacrifice they'd be dead.

    They've become strong, but not strong enough to face a more powerful enemy than them. I don't like the "the more stronger enemies Luffy faces, the stronger he gets". E.g. What if he faces some of the Admirals, what would he do? Battle and die? But because of the plot someone would be there to save him. I would like to see a lot of things changed, but I don't have the hope that they will. It's also boring to see Chopper with a 100 berry bounty when he's actually stronger than Nami and Robin. Brook not getting a new sword and not utilizing his DF is also boring. Both Nami and Robin are physically weak compare to female subordinates either from the Navy or the Emperors. I understand their supportive role in battles and that's good, however they seem to get in the way when some enemy faces them solo, which makes either Luffy, Zoro or Sanji jumping to save them, and this is a big drawback. The way the story has gone, now we see that there was a crew far stronger than Roger's, who of all people on that crew were both Big Mom and Kaido. Since these Titans were both on that crew, imagine how powerful their Captain and other crew mates were. Simply the Strawhats are not even near that level.
     
  6. Admiral Ryokugyu

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    #6 Admiral Ryokugyu, Jul 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    Luffy vs Katakuri ? I know you'll say that Flampe and the other soldiers participated in the fight at some point but that was negligible compared to the +15 chapters featuring the fight.

    Sorry to say this, but this is a very amateur criticism. You're being way too impatient. Big Mom and Kaido's saga just begun, and you're already judging Luffy's level in the fights against them. So you want Luffy to beat Kaido in his first fight against him ? Illogical. You seem to forget that this is not a novel, it's a Shonen manga. Shonen manga have a set of " rules " to follow. When a mangaka wants to have his work published by Shueisha, he brings the manuscript to their office. An editor comes and checks his work. It's either a Shonen story, a Seinen story, a Shojo story, a Josei story ... and gets published in the specific magazine that corresponds to the genre. If it contains scenes of heavy blood and gore or sex then it's published in the Weekly Young Jump, if it's for young females then it's published in Margaret or Bessatsu Margaret, if it's for adult women then it gets published in You ...

    However, the most popular genre is the Shonen one, destined for male teenagers and published in the Weekly Shonen Jump. This is the classic story concept where the hero starts small, gets wrecked, trains hard, then wins in the end. One Piece is a Shonen manga, so you should expect Luffy to get destroyed in his first time fighting the enemy, then he'll train hard and end up beating him.

    What i think was going on inside Oda's head in WCI is this: the logical outcome of Luffy vs Katakuri is Luffy's defeat. However, i'll have Luffy one-shotted in his first fight against Kaido soon in the next arc, so it wouldn't be that good to have the protagonist lose 2 major fights in a row. Moreover, if Luffy loses against Katakuri, then he needs his redemption later on since this is a Shonen manga. But i can't give him his rematch because he'll be in Wano in the next arc fighting an Emperor, so having him fight a Yonko commander after that would be a downgrade. So let's make Luffy win against Katakuri, this way i don't have to plan a rematch for him, nor do i have to worry about Luffy getting his a$$ handed to him against Kaido.

    Luffy beat Cracker, then he " lost " against Big Mom, then he beat Katakuri, then he lost against Kaido.

    Having Luffy beat Big Mom and Kaido in his first try would be a plot armor that is thicker than Queen's belly.

    Oda decided to save this power-up to the end of the arc and give it to Sanji as a reward. It's the Germa Raid Suit. Instead of having Sanji shine in the arc combat-wise, he went with the other option, which is making him shine at what he does best: cooking.

    Luffy, Kuzan, Doflamingo, Kizaru, Sakazuki, Marco ... would be useless as well without their Devil Fruits.

    proof ?

    Dude, Whole Cake Island arc was never intended to be an arc in which the Straw Hats fight Big Mom Pirates. The trip to there was supposed to be a stealth retrieval mission. Zoro warned them in Zou to not pick a fight with Big Mom because Kaido is the target right now. WCI arc's purpose was to introduce Big Mom Pirates and their territories. Oda left the fights for Wano arc. What do you think Big Mom is doing in Wano ? She's not here for tourism. People have been criticizing Smoothie's low screentime for ages, and guess what ? She's onboard Queen Mama Chanter that's near Wano right now. He was saving her for Wano.

    Oda was asked in an SBS about Nami's dream of drawing the map of the world. Oda answered saying that " she's already drawing it in the crew's free time ", no need to show her in the manga doing so. Same thing for training, you have no proof that the Straw Hats aren't training in their free time.
     
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  7. ckimbrew

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    #7 ckimbrew, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
    Like Zoro said a long time ago when Ussop got left behind on Ennies lobby, they've all gotten unknowingly stronger with each island they've passed.

    Like Rayleigh and Hyougoro said, the true flower of Haki only blooms in actual combat.

    I say this, they are all top tier. Each of the Strawhats. BUT, they can not reach new levels without being exposed to them. Can't learn new possibilities, new fighting styles, new powers until seeing them, surviving them, and learning to copy or surpass them. Imagine running into warfare with arrows agains an enemies with gun, not only surviving, but being pushed to the brink of death, and still winning. Even out classed, if you have what it takes inside, it may not be pretty, but winning is winning. The Naruto reference "If a battle was with a shuriken and a stone, the wilder that was more proficient would decide the battle". Zetsu said something similar comparing sharingan and mangekyuo when Itachi and Sasuke were fighting. Actually, this was the same reference.

    Luffy was never on a stronger person's crew. None of them were. And, as far as we know, neither was Roger or Rayleigh.... Apparently, they learned the same way the Strawhats are. Surviving and defeating enemies by any means necessary. Rising to the occasion so to speak. Big Mom and Kaido were on the crew of a legendary pirate. They saw first hand how to wield power, how to gain it, they were exposed to it and had experienced it for years before now. Liken them to Shanks being on Roger's ship... Or, the next generation after Shanks, the strength of the commanders that were exposed to Big Mom and Kaido... The Strawhats are being baptized on the battlefield and that is going to mean something.

    It would be simply unbelievable to have someone overcome 50years of fighting experience simply by being the main character. Surviving and overcoming is more believable and so it makes for a better story.

    If the new haki is unappealing, do you not agree with Roger's, Shank's, or Rayleigh's abilities to compete with the rest of the Yonko? I think that you are vastly underestimating the powers of future sight and the power to damage previously "un-damageable" characters.

    Lastly, I beg to differ on their training. Several times I've seen things like Ussop's target practice, Zoro's sword honing, meditating, and workouts, Franky's weapon development, etc. Because of all of the story and character development, it think it is just safe to assume that they are indeed training.

    What say you?
     
  8. Seiryu

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    Until we learned what the "teleportation" was doing, Kuma was the one to deliver the "finishing blow" to all of them. Kuma was the one that most effortlessly dealt with them (Kizaru should have been able to do much worse, but that's where Rayleigh kept things rational). But in regards to the main point, it was "fun" because there was the character development soon after. Same thing is going to happen, it is just going to take longer because of all the additional factors in Wano Kuni right now (the Marines/CP0 almost have to do something since the 15K samurai allies need to do something during the war).

    I can fully agree with the feelings you have, and I probably have greater fears on Oda reverting to more B.S. and especially with how he plans to handle Luffy's power-up.
    Haha...sorry this is exactly why Oda shouldn't have changed his original plans. WCI was supposed to be the "failure" that forced all the protagonists to wake up and take a Yonkou war seriously. I agree with everything your saying. Unfortunately, Oda decided to mess things up and deviate from the plot he took years to plan out. B.S. content is why things no longer fit perfectly together and we have holes (still small to be fair) to nitpick at.
    Yup. I 100% agree. It makes zero sense why Sanji only upgraded his cooking skills and appears to have no growth with his combat capabilities from 3D2Y.
    Yes, this is true, but at the same time, Oda creating B.S. drama just because he was butt-hurt a few fans in the entire world figured out what was coming up next is completely stupid. Why should every fan suffer with a lower quality product for Oda's damn pride? All those same fans probably know the "real ending" to One Piece. The manga content starting to get back to normal is a great sign, but how naive/how much petty anger Oda has is yet to be seen. If he cannot realize that his literary mastery is exactly why piecing together future events is a natural side effect, we are going to have more B.S. in the future. That's a 100% guarantee.

    @F.E.A.R. is 100% valid in the complaints. As are both you and I when we did it at times here. Oda is his own biggest critic, but I question if he consciously understands how much he truly f'ed up his "child".
    "Supposed". All signs point Big Mom wasn't "supposed" to be in Wano Kuni either. One Piece is a step lower in quality than before. Every fan deserves their right to vent the frustration over the realization of the relative crap. It is still minor relative to the great majority of context still being 100% connected, but it is a huge difference from the complete perfection a few years ago.
    This I 100% agree with. Luffy didn't magically figure out how to use Gears Second through Fourth. Same goes for the entire crew. A huge perk is that we do not see the training. Most power-ups have been fully rational and just fit.
    Exactly, the growth and powering up is part of the "journey". We are at a major step-up though. The Yonkou/admiral tier is by far the biggest gap in the One Piece world. So I 100% agree that it should take time for it to happen. But same as the above, every fan deserves the right to vent over B.S. content.
    This keeps coming up, but level 2 haki is not and cannot be the answer. Because it is a "basic" technique, Big Mom and Kaidou already know it. It literally is a drop in the ocean. Luffy has to have his awakening (or something new to match that level of a power-up).
     
  9. Admiral Ryokugyu

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    So Luffy should've beat Big Mom and Kaido by now ?

    @F.E.A.R. said " What happened to Luffy kicking Big's Mom's ass and defeating Kaido? He got pushed by Big Mom in Gear 4th, turned him to normal and made him unconscious and Kaido one shotted him and made him his bitch. "

    Let's say that Oda didn't incorporate the B.S. changes until after Dressrosa. Luffy beat Doflamingo in Chapter 790. We're now in Chapter 948. So if you say that @F.E.A.R. 's complaints are valid, then Luffy should've been able to beat 2 Emperors of the Sea ( Big Mom and Kaido ) in less than 160 chapters ? Whereas it took Oda 102 chapters to write a complete story for one Shichibukai ( Doflamingo ) and make Luffy beat him.

    there is no proof, so those " signs " should have been taken with a grain of salt. Anything that's just speculation shouldn't be used as an argument. If the reader predicted something based on speculation, then it's his fault if he ends up being disappointed, not Oda's.

    I won't say that One Piece's quality is lower than before, however from what i've seen in Marineford, Oda didn't plan the New World quite well. Whitebeard having a crew of absolutely useless nerds and commanders who look like a bunch of retards is the ultimate proof that shows he didn't have a clear idea of a Yonko's crew power level at that time, and that's why many fans say that Whitebeard Pirates have no chance against Big Mom Pirates. I totally understand where they're coming from.

    One Piece's quality might seem lower than before because Oda, in my personal opinion and from what i've noticed, didn't plan the New World well as he did for East Blue saga and Paradise.
     
  10. Gogu48

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    Hi guys,

    Just my opinion, remember when the Marineford arc was ended by Shanks; Kizaru just froze when Ben Beckman was pointing his gun at him and Whitebeard despite his wounds was trashing with Sakazuki.
    Let's leave aside the Whitebeards pirets, which were big in number but not very powerful, except WB.
    I am pretty sure that Katakuri is much stronger than Jack or Queen, maybe less powerful than King.
    From my point of view some of the commanders, Ben Beckman, maybe King and 1 commander of Blackbeard are stronger than admirals; some commanders, Katakuri and Queen are almost on Admiral level and the others are clearly below admiral levels.

    From these points, I guess that Luffy can take on a admiral. More or less, we have not seen Zorro's true potential after the time-skip. Maybe he will transform his sword into a black sword this arc, providing him a big power boost.
     
  11. Seiryu

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    #11 Seiryu, Jul 17, 2019 at 3:36 AM
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019 at 3:44 AM
    Of course not. I'm talking about the main "complaint".
    Signs and proof are by definition two completely different things. I'll support Oda is most cases, him butchering his child I absolutely will not. His schedule makes it unlikely for him to reflect back on the big picture, but it's a guarantee he will take it harder than any fan in the world when he finally gets back to WCI. It seems like we disagree on where the B.S. starts, but I am curious on what you think starts going off after Dressrosa. Something seemed different to you about Punk Hazard?
    Just because we don't see them fighting doesn't mean they weren't capable. All of the combat commanders could hold their own against admiral level fighters (Mihawk). Ace is the clear exception because of his connection to Roger and Whitebeards late friendship with Roger. This also stems from the sudden introduction of an even greater powerhouse in the illegitimate child. Just because he beats them, doesn't mean they weren't a legitimate powerhouse in the New World. I'll 100% disagree with that aspect. I will 100% agree that the fighting mechanics are not "planned out" but that stems from Oda only showing the "real fights/real techniques" when Luffy/a Mugiwara gets exposed to it. Just like Ace vs. Blackbeard should have been full of all haki (kenbunshoku [likely foresight level], busoushoku, and even level 2 haki too). However, Oda is 100% correct because introducing things out of order throws off the "believability" and "connectivity" of the plot. We just have to take any action above Luffy's current level with a grain of salt.
    And "planning" is entirely my point with B.S. He had the plot planned out years (potentially a decade plus) in advance. For me, WCI is the distinct transition point where Oda chooses to deviate from the planned material and introduce B.S. out of his damn pride. And the "proof" is Oda himself admitting this at the time. We had multiple "fake apologies" per my bias.

    Punk Hazard still fits perfectly with all of the pre-existing content to me. So I'm curious what doesn't fit in your mind.

    Edit:
    Woah, that's exactly my point on the recency bias. Just because they got defeated by the illegitimate child doesn't mean Marco, Jouzu (whatever the diamond guy's name was), or even the dual swordsman to a certain extent, were not powerhouses in the New World. Is Luffy not a legitimate powerhouse in the New World? He isn't among the top 4-20ish people in the entire world, but he's still in the tier below them (which is still leaps and bounds above the rest of the world).
    So I am much more lenient on this in between area since don't have much information of fight scenes for most people is this "tier 2" level of fighters.

    Technically Lucky Loo is the second strongest Red Hair member (Ben is the right hand man though). All of the Mugiwara are not at a Yonkou/admiral level in my mind, but that's the whole point in the big picture that anyone legitimate in the New World is just astronomically stronger than everyone else in the world. The hardest part is that there are HUGE gaps between the tiers within the New World.

    Even the weakling trio can trash people in the first half of the Grand Line or the individual seas (CP9 was feared even among the Grand Line).
     
  12. GoldenVenus

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    I actually quite agree with what you're complaining here; the fact that Oda doesn't really show the development of their abilities. And what I mean is how they develop it, and the result of that development. Of course, I'm not saying that Luffy should beat a Yonko, he's obviously not at that level yet. What I'm not of fond is the fact that each fight they encounter, they're basically repeating the same thing all over again. Starts fighting, gets beaten up, gains upper hand, turns out the enemy is the one gaining the upper hand actually, gets beaten again, and suddenly gains sudden strength and defeats the opponent. I basically don't see anything that would show how they have developed their skills/strengths etc. And yes, I also would like to see Luffy taking on an enemy alone. Not by having random power up or sudden willpower, but a proper development, that needs to be shown.

    That's basic training. I think what he's referring to is the progress of their development, and how they train to get stronger.

    Lol I can agree with this. I can imagine Oda debating with himself, and thinking this. Which is why I said that it's upsetting that the actual progress of their development isn't shown much. Logically, Luffy should get stronger after each fight. But everytime he fights he doesn't display any sign of major improvement, and only show how he can suddenly defeat the enemy in the end.

    I don't know what the original plot for WCI is. But does that mean they were supposed to lose the battle there?
     
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  13. Yosh!

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    Wait. So you expect Luffy to beat every opponent he'll face after the timeskip? What's this, Fairy Tail? Seven Deadly Sins? Where you get a lot of power ups to beat single-handedly OP antagonists? Plots like those are just plain boring and very predictable.

    Timeskip is not a plot armor to make Luffy unbeatable henceforth.
     
  14. KKG

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    I can underline every single points you say here.
    I said a million times things like this,showing the truth i could see and all i earned here was hate from the OPF members.
    And i'm sure some members are ignoring me now because i don't like to see what they did to an anime who could be such a success,Oda doesn't have a future with this character.
    It doesn't matter if i told them i don't want to bash,i'm still hated.
    If you are one of the only ones with courage to tell how you suffered watching your favorite anime get wasted like there is no tommorow by it's own producer you should quit watching it because i'm sure you will get bored before reaching the end and even if you can watch it you will have the disappointment of your life.
    And of course Naruto is really a good example too.
    He was a horrible main character who would be useless without the Kyuubi,and yet that hypocrit hated the only reliable power he had,all his techniques were useless,in the end it was the Kyuubi fighting for him all the time.
    Thanks for sharing this and if you still want to watch you need to be patient,but there are other smaller good animes to watch,you only loose your time with OP if you want.:(
     
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  15. Admiral Ryokugyu

    New Marineford
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    #15 Admiral Ryokugyu, Jul 18, 2019 at 10:46 PM
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019 at 10:51 PM
    you're aware that you're talking about a guy who has been at the top of his game for 22 consecutive years right ? He knows what he's doing.

    I don't hesitate to heavily criticize Oda when he messes up, but i don't doubt his ability to live up to the hype in the future. This story is in good hands.

    correction: from some* OPF members. I've never hated you because of you criticizing One Piece. It's your right to do so anyway.
     
  16. Marco Polo

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    The problem with these types of strength debates is that we want to have our cake and eat it.

    What do I mean by that?

    We want Luffy to beat up the strongest guys and reach his goal of Pirate King, but we also want it to feel like a challenge. If he beats the crap out of Kaido with low diff, “Oda did an asspull”. If he’s shown to be significantly weaker than his future opponents before he actually has to fight them, he’s “useless” and “if he wins it’s an asspull”. Luffy has to make a major jump in strength right now to catch Kaido, and it needs to happen in a way that’s believable within the existing power structures we have in the story. However, we as readers are impatient and we need to see that jump in strength immediately, otherwise we brand the character (in this case Luffy) “useless”. This happens with other characters too - for example both Zoro and Sanji were labelled “weak” or “useless” by people across the One Piece community because “ooh they took damage against some useless guy no way they’re going to be commander level”. There’s a lot of story still to be told before the final battle, we have to let the story develop organically and let our characters grow and improve.
     
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  17. KKG

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    I saw many action animes and some of them had a consistent story were the characters evolved defeating oponents stronger and stronger.
    But their level up was enough to win the 1st enemy,then the stronger 2nd,the stronger 3rd...
    With One Piece Enel is defeated with no logical explanation using the rules of akuma no mi.
    And then at the New World Hody is only strong because of drugs but a bug compared to Enel.
    Yet Luffy using haki wich would now allow him to beat Enel easily still struggles against Hody with no haki and no DF!
    The only enemy Luffy defeated who was very strong was Mingo and he still had a very poor performance.
    His flawled power up was used at the wrong time just to stretch the fight ending up in a horrible way not to mention Mingo could slice all that island including all the people there before Luffy could even hit him.
    We know haki is the only effective power against strong DF users.
    But how many stages it has to develop?
    And why Luffy is limited and his opponents aren't?
    He created enemies with levels so high nobody can even touch them!
    Kizaru and Akainu or Fujitora are impossible to beat by any SH.
    Kaido and Big Mom would kill all of them without plot armor.
    The story is now to long and tired,so it's natural for people to be impatient.
    And it will never be proved that Luffy is stronger with so many interferences on the fights.
    I can say Oda will never find a convincing way using the rules of his own story to deafeat the Yonkos that must be defeated.
    The admirals will never be defeated,and the Navy will still stand in the final because they are the cops here.
    Either Luffy finds the treasure and gets caught or he finds the treasure and disappears in the sea and he will never be found.
    With the size of this story and the "extensions" it has i'm sure Oda will have nothing better than improvise when he has to put the SHs at the level of their monstruous enemies.
    Katakuri was much stronger than Mingo and Luffy with improvements never beat him in a convincing way,was he superior?
    Hell no.
    There is no concept of the asspull strong at anythime,just "strong but not enough with very thick plot armor" everytime and this is the only consistent fact we see on this story.
    So the heros are weak,the enemies are asspull strong,the allies are weak or outclassed,the power ups of the heros are flawled and the plot armor is annoying and unreal.
    I will never understand from my standards of a main character why some mc will say to a fearsome enemy i will kick your ass,then he is tossed like a rag doll by this enemy and runs like a coward to survive instead of insisting and beat the shit out of him!
    He looks like Mr Satan when he finds an enemy he can't beat...
    I have a stomach ache.
     
  18. mysticalflute

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    Compared to the two Yonko who are in their 60s/70s and have at least 40 years of experience in being pirates? Yeah, I imagine the Straw Hats are weak compared to them, and yes, I'm including Brook in this given how long he'd been alone.

    The Yonko aren't supposed to be easy to beat. I'd have been pissed if Luffy had managed to actually take DOWN Big Mom and end her reign as a Yonko during WCI, and I don't even LIKE Big Mom as a character. Not to mention, Oda has made them ungodly OP compared to the "normal" human characters like Nami.

    We've been told repeatedly that the Yonko are on a whole other level of power compared to other pirates, and even Marines. Luffy and the others have done amazing, powerful things in their world, but they are going to need help to actually take down Yonko like Kaido and Big Mom - and that's okay.
     
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  19. Seiryu

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    I have no idea on the series the term originates from but the B.S. "deus ex machina" power-up plot device is stereotypical of all shounen series. It does create drama, but on the positive side, we should get legit fighting for the last chunk of the series.
    Rather than a successful fight and escape, the numbers and powerhouses were supposed to successfully corner the protagonists completely. Something was supposed to save them (context, and not leaked spoilers, implies that Lola had an influential marriage to replace the Germa 66 marriage => Lola's dept/love for Nami as well as the same excessive "returning of favors" that her sister/father have as well as the cover page with Shanks laughing at an important marriage in the New World). After they successfully negotiate an escape, the tamatebako was supposed to blow up in Big Mom's face and re-ignite her desire to kill Luffy.

    With the absolute loss, Luffy is forced to undergo a faster maturation process that trickles down to the entire crew and alliance.
    I don't think I've read any responses to indicate this during my time here. I do understand in that the average member here likes to stick to the positive side of things so the truth is the unpopular take when it is negative.
    I will disagree here though because Oda is showing his return to legit content. Once things stop fitting together is when worrying and decreased faith in Oda can return.
    Yup, just gotta be patient for the good stuff to come up. Finding joy in the "build-up chapters" helps seeing how thoroughly connected every single detail is.
    This is a great point, especially since aging does nothing to combat capabilities.
     
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  20. GoldenVenus

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    Yeah, I'm aware that most shounen are like that. Not fond of it, but I guess they're gonna keep doing it that way. Lol. It's a good thing One Piece has an amazing plot. (minus the WCI arc)

    I'm not too sure whether that'd be better or not, but I actually wanted to see Luffy going through some extreme changes and development before Wano. Which didn't happen. i notice that Oda doesn't show much of character development. There is, but not much.
     
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