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Complaint. The Strawhats are weak!

Discussion in 'One Piece Manga' started by F.E.A.R., Jul 12, 2019.

  1. KKG

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    And another fact that got me bored in One Piece is with enemies like the Yonkos and the Admirals with a level the SHs will never achieve the story keeps spamming weaklings like Hody for them to beat and this will make some fans think positive but not me.
    Just like @mysticalflute said the Yonkos are on another level and the experience won by beating nobodies is not enough to achieve their level so how many weaklings they have to beat until they can wipe out that plague?
    This story will take ages.
    And i would ask Oda this but i have no idea how can someone beat Blackbeard.
    He can suck all the SHs into a void and drop all of them in the ocean,and do that multiple times.
    He can drop them anywhere he wants and there is nothing they can do to stop that.
    Even if haki coating can protect Luffy's abilities from being disabled it will not protect him from being sucked into the black hole.
    He can grab a tree or a rock,the void can suck the tree or the rock.
    He can't grab kairoseki.
    Blackbeard is trying to master his DF wich is the most powerfull of all DFs and using a good haki nothing can stop him.
    Not even Oda's imagination can find a way to solve this OP problem,improvising is often the popular way.
    I imagined several times how a fight between BB and Luffy would be and i can't find a way on my head using what i know about the story of Luffy defeating him.
    It's not possible,he doesn't have skills that can disable that thing and it will keep hitting him.
    I allways take plot armor out of the scene but on this story...
    It's like @Marco Polo said about these opinions:laughing:
     
  2. Seiryu

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    Haha...100% agree.
    That's the whole point of the WCI defeat though. It was supposed to be the wake up call for Luffy to be serious. Even with the Kaidou beat down, he isn't as serious (i.e. worried/fearful) as he needs to be.
    Woah, not much character development? In regards to Luffy's maturation (being an adult in mindset), I will 100% agree (just have to clarify to be sure).
    Edit:
    Yes, but even Blackbeard was not at a true "Yonkou/admiral" level when he first got the Gura Gura abilities. Just gotta be patient for the major plot points to be written.
     
  3. KKG

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    Teach had development,he couldn't kill WB but he waited for injuries at the war and then got his DF.
    At that time he could do that wich means his DF was already awakened.
    The major plot points to be written here will take years.
    And like i said before,the power of this character is so big there will be no solution for his fall different from improvise.
    The dimension of power of some enemies is so unreal it's not possible to defeat them.
    He is like that skull guy on Bleach who could make everyone disappear making them old,they found a solution but this one won't be stuck on his own powers and that would be a disappointment.
    This idea of a formidable character who can get allies is bullshit to me if his power can't convince his allies.
    Mihawk said "it's not his power"...
    The usual fetish of japanese mangakas is humiliate their own main characters too many time,make them suffer,injure them because they can take it.
    But in the end what they do is not because they can take it,it's because plot armor can protect them.
    It's a type of development i will never understand.
    Why can't the power of your character make the difference?
    He has to be carried by the story!
    Luffy will never be one of the great ones like Saitama,he is just a looser chasing an impossible dream.
    He has a talented swordsman,the best cook,the best navigator,the best arqueologist,a great doctor,the best ship builder and all he can do is talk too much.
    I feel sorry for Luffy and other wasted characters on this story for the way they are being wasted.
    And there is no final of any type that can fix this.
     
  4. GoldenVenus

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    Like I said, there is character development, but not much. Well, Oda still creates better characters compared to other mangakas imo, but I think the character development here could be done better. Basically, character development refers to the changes that a character undergoes, which usually resulted from the conflicts/obstacles he is facing. Of course, you can see how Luffy grows to be where he is now. He started with basically nothing, and then learned about Haki, got stronger etc. In this case, I would say that in the first saga, the development was done quite well.

    But after Luffy left for Fishman Island, I hardly see any character growth, up until the latest chapter of the manga. It's not simply about his abilities and strength. The rest of the Strawhats definitely don't seem to have much character growth/development. If you can pinpoint more of their development and growth, please tell me (in case I missed/forgot certain things). One Piece seems to be more plot-driven (there's two type; plot-driven and character-driven) I'm not saying it's a bad thing since the plot is amazing enough to make up for certain things (which might be why you were surprised when I said there isn't much character development), but in storytelling, both should be balanced.
     
  5. Seiryu

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    But even after getting the Gura abilities, he still avoids Akainu despite having the massive numbers advantage. Even Blackbeard has his "morals" of wanting a 1v1 fight (most of the time since he didn't want his crew stepping in with Ace either). The level 6 people knew they could take out Akainu with their numbers.
    But at the same time, those power-ups have to be rational. It can't just be B.S. "deus ex machina" power-ups out of no where. Dragon Ball, Bleach, and especially the early parts of Naruto (only being able to tap into Kyuubi's chakra when absolutely necessary). If you don't like the drama of characters failing, I will just say that a plot of the protagonists completely succeeding all the time is not going to remain popular. There has to be emotional changes, and failing is a necessary part of that spectrum.
    Saitama, is that One Punch Man (or whatever series where the protagonist is at some god-level of combat capabilities)? If he does nothing but succeed all the time, then the plot is fully predictable. Even if he is in a completely different tier from all other characters, there still has to be other factors to create different emotional reactions from the readers.

    This has come up before, but it sounds like you will be much happier once Luffy gets his awakening and truly becomes Yonkou/admiral level.
    We probably are on the same page, but I would point to the "adults" of the crew since Gyojin Island (Robin, Zoro, and at times Nami). Because they are the only "rational" characters, they have to take an even greater burden of responsibility in that there are more problems/dangers in the New World and no one else is shouldering any responsibility. They all had minor incidences of trying to get the crew to not get everyone killed, but Zoro's warning of going into WCI seriously is probably the biggest point of maturation.

    This likely directly stems from his training with Mihawk. In the very beginning, he naively thought he was close to Mihawk even at an East Blue level. With how much he powered up, he understandably thought he significantly closed the gap at the start of 3D2Y. We get to see a glimpse of this will Zoro struggling against the head monkey (I think that was Mihawk's entry exam to start training Zoro).

    Similarly with Robin, being among the RA and seeing what "New World" level fighting is, is exactly why she made HUGE jumps in her fruit abilities. Her ability was overpowering upon introduction, but fully body clones and allowing for multiplication of her analysis/strategizing should allow her to own anyone without a huge haki advantage over her (she can see the attack coming and negate the clone being attacked).

    In theory, even WCI should have been character development for Luffy (he knows and Oda has shown him fearing Big Mom recently). However, Oda's damn pride is why he puts panels like Luffy thinking level 2 haki is enough to "break through Kaidou's scales" (which it can't since Kaidou knows level 2 haki already. The B.S. is masking the plot and character development, which is why it is B.S. in the first place.

    From the comment, it sounds like we are in full agreement on the inadequate character development. I'm slightly more optimistic on the overall results in that at least the mature characters are being forced to grow to keep the crew alive.
     
  6. KKG

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    #26 KKG, Jul 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
    @Seiryu,i know a character who was a small unknown adventurer who failed all the time and who nobody except a little godess would want him as family.
    His name was Bell Cranell,he was saved by a powerfull blondie in a dungeon.
    I remember going to the bathroom to clean my nose and my eyes with this anime as much as One Piece but now i can remember Bell as a hero who saved everyone,and became loved and recognized by everyone and i knew exactly why.
    And i could still watch DanMachi and drop tears with pride because i can feel the pain of that character!
    I watched One Piece and it had so many beautiful moments just to end up like a super stretched show with bad animation and a character who is just a franchise mascot.
    People say don't watch the anime,read the manga...but they don't say the anime is based on the manga and manga has no animation,only doodles who can't move or speak or feel anything.
    What kind of entertainment i have when i see a character who does a lot of promises but he can't do anything?
    The power ups are rational in One Piece but i would have to define rational and power ups.
    It's easier to understand those "BS powers" you say in Bleach or Dragon Ball and they were effective.
    The definition of power up in One Piece is have someome who can injure the enemy,and then attack him with all you have,you will not die because plot armor will save you.
    To spare the life of the characters the fights all end with no conclusion instead of the "BS power up" ones.
    Action stories must be thrilling,awesome,a freaking show,overkill.
    I've seen small stories who could do all of this,so the size of this story is becoming a big problem with a very difficult,improvised and boring solution.
    Since Dressrosa everything is going downhill.
    Whole Cake is the worst season ever and i wouldn't expect Wano to be better.
    Oda will abuse plot armor and side help again and Luffy will be a shadow of himself just like Dressrosa and Whole Cake.
    If he is saving power ups for the major fights and then i saw these results i think Oda is out of ideas.
    If you asked me how did Luffy survive to so many strong enemies until now i would say the magic words "PLOT ARMOR".
    How did Bell survived to his fights?
    Some help or his own will to fight,Goku died and could be revived by the dragon,Ichigo was very resilient and had a great hidden power.
    It could probably happen what you don't like,the ex-machina to find a believable way to beat the undefeated Kaido.
     
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  7. Seiryu

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    To each their own preferences/biases. Based on how the recent chapters (and even the recent anime episodes) are going, Oda and Toei are deviating from the personal and or business reasons that led to the problems you mention throughout this post. I personally really enjoyed Punk Hazard, but I will 100% agree with everything else.

    I truly think Oda will be able to please even you with the awakening twist. Oda had a very detailed plan, which negates the B.S. power-up/deus-ex machina plot hole. Once he is Yonkou level, he isn't the useless "weakling" and can live up to all the big talk. I would counter that this happens to pretty much all Shounen protagonists (Goku always gets beaten down when the new foe comes up, Ichigo was always unskilled and dependent on his massive energy storage, and same for Naruto and being dependent on the Kyuubi).

    I'm not familiar with Bell, but I'm just saying drama is an integral part of any manga plot. Thankfully, Luffy being outclassed should be ending within the next 50ish chapters.
     
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  8. KKG

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    #28 KKG, Jul 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
    The problem is when the author starts to think it's better for the story if the character allways struggles.
    They think if the character is overpowered he isn't enjoyable so they make him weak to make people wait for a power up that never comes out.
    Gear 4th was a failure,Tankman was a failure,Snakeman was a failure.
    Turn his surroundings into rubber won't help him so that won't be part of his awakenning and it doesn't fit his style.
    Luffy is a close range fighter,the stretching only increases the damage and speed.
    Make rubber harder can be done with haki coating but Mingo could go through it with a few bullet strings.
    I think he can have a power up but he will allawys be limited because Oda is just trying to make him bigger,but not stronger.
    Every improvements Luffy has are limited but gear 3th made him small before and he improved that the next arc.
    On other shounen specially Dragon Ball the characters might loose the first time but then they get better,they just need to have more ki than the enemy.
    Enemies like Big Mom use the power of their soul to make those clouds attack with fire or thunder and they have no limits,even when she is sleeping they work.
    Luffy is only inflating his body and after 2 arcs he is still unable to solve that problem.
    I've seen people talking about Luffy's gears and i think they are right when they say it will kill him sooner or later.
    Law might even use the secret ability of his DF to save him and die too.
    Yonko level is just too much for him.
    If he can achieve that level i think he can probably fight for some minutes and die from exaustion.
    All he is doing is risking his life with uneffective gears who are consuming his energy and life force.
    With the enemies everything is easy,brutal DF's,very developed skills and great haki control and they barely need to eat a 1/4 of everything Luffy eats.
    So he will have a cooked dinossaur allways on his back to recover his energy?
    And Law to backup him?
    And he will have time to eat?
    Sooner or later Akainu vs Luffy will be a reality?
    Ace died for what?
    Should be a reason for Luffy to grow up,be a man and start to fight seriously insted of making noise.
    WB had his internal organs burned by him and he is still the most powerfull character in this show.
    If he beats everything by his own there is nothing for Law to do?
    With so many enemies out there?
    I can admit i don't understand Oda's character development.
     
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  9. Seiryu

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    C'mon. It is only a "failure" in comparison to Yonkou/admirals. It is a necessary step of progress to topple mid-tier Shichibukai/Yonkou exec level fighters. As for the awakening, I am 99% sure Oda spoiled parts of Luffy's awakening with Snakeman. The "manga-logic" makes sense where there can be increase momentum as the snake-arm keeps travelling (real physics is the opposite). Rather than creating random rubber, Luffy may potentially have infinite stretching abilities (exceed his "100 gomu gomu" limit set by Oda in the very early SBS). Thus, as long as the opponent doesn't use a blade, his entire body (both arms and legs) can be attacking an opponent with every limb gaining destructive power as it keeps going. It literally becomes a web to trap opponents. This also immediately negates the close range limitation (the farther, the stronger the attack gets).
    Haki being imbued on his arteries/veins, bones, and muscles completely negate the damage and cutting of his lifespan. This is probably the most important thing Rayleigh worked off offscreen (Luffy makes a comment after 3D2Y to confirm).
    And this is exactly why the awakening is the answer. It allows Luffy to magically and rationally jump all the way up to Yonkou/admiral level. He is still limited by his overuse of haki (he can't fight for 7+ days like all other fighters in the absolute top tier). That may never change, but hopefully it does. Because he has to regain his haki energy/physical energy, he will always have to eat a bunch after a fight, but the Kaidou/Big Mom stuff should be the only back to back major fights anyway.
    These are great points in that it shows how Oda does put a whole lot of work into every character in the series. All of the breadcrumbs are there. It is natural to miss some of them and that's where discussion boards like this are necessary for the fans to discuss and "figure it out for [ourselves]" (that's a quote by Oda telling us that he cannot fit every explanation into the manga, so it is for us to piece together all of the necessary info Oda put in the manga).
     
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  10. KKG

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    #30 KKG, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
    You have some interesting facts there,@Seiryu and i will tell you my honest opinion for what i've seen in this story.
    Oda has now 2 choices here:
    1-He can keep using plot twists to make the story stretch more
    2-He can focus on the main character's development
    I think he should go for the 2.
    Blades are not a problem for Luffy if he is using haki to coat himself,so he must make it better,higher level.
    As i said many times and Oda will know this because it's his story if there is a time for Luffy to develop now is the time.
    The Yonkos are the last challenge that will test him until he finds Raftel.
    At the end he will have to fight the WG,the Navy will be there and since he would have Yonko level he could be the captain that will command a huge army of Elites to finally defeat the Navy and the WG and free the entire world from their madness.
    And i think Teach should help him too because he is also part of the family of D and it would be a last tribute to Ace,who died because of his actions.
    I am 100% sure that any fan of One Piece would like to watch Luffy and Hancock going through an army of marines using haoshoku haki and as they are walking with authority all the marines are going down.
    And he must be equal to WB or even better to give a serious beating to the Navy,they are arrogant and they deserve it.
    Forgive me for this but the best thing that could happen to this story is a huge loss in sales.
    Luffy x Hancock at the end must happen,any other conclusion will suck.
    Everyone will love it.
    Somehow people could show their disappointment and lack of patience for the lousy character development it has and the lack of effectiveness Luffy has on the most decisive battles so it's a waste of their money and time.
    This could make Oda wake up and Toei too,and i'm sure they could do much better than this.
    But the industry is like this,if they want their stories big,big is the way and the ones who don't like don't watch.
    When people like something but they keep watching it going downhill they want to say this is wrong,for their perspective.
    But since i'm not a mangaka my opinions are just noise for them.
    If he had some time to listen to the fans not just with positive comments but also with negative comments i think this story would become much better.
    Entertainment has to entertain,as long as a lot of fans keep ignoring this and say "it's just a fictional story,we shouldn't take it too serious" they will keep buying and more stories like this with so much potential will become a streched mess.
    I feel very bad and insulted as a fan of anime when i see fans who love these stories just like me saying they don't take it serious,people can call me the pervert but they know exactly why i say this.
     
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  11. Seiryu

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    So far so good with the second half of the current Wano Kuni chapters (Oda is going with the second option). It's been limited to Luffy and Zoro, but the entire crew will get their development when the climax fights occur.
    Blades are not a problem only if the opponent is much weaker (see the Cracker fight). We will have to wait on the mechanics of the "black blade", but context implies Mihawk doesn't even need haki to cut Gear Fourth Luffy in half. Oda planned the Luffy/Zoro relationship perfectly in that Zoro almost always deals with the "swordsman" of the opponent. The main exception will be Shanks, but I am biased to think it is more of a "friendly competition" (with "killing intent"). So I wouldn't be surprised it the Red Hair war ends up being a New World level Davy Back fight.
    Haha...Boa definitely does appear to be among the few legit powerhouse female characters (she knew Luffy was out of his league at Marineford). It is a "wait and see", but all the breadcrumbs and leaked info indicates the story rapidly progressing to Luffy getting his awakening and finally being Yonkou/admiral level.
    I think I've been the primary driver of the "hate on Oda for B.S. changes". It was never a bandwagon, but fans steadily understood the crap quality that stemmed from the changes over time. I said from basically beginning, that I would vote with my dollars and would stop buying manga volumes (I should buy all the missing volumes during my next trip since the B.S. has stopped). So I would 1000% agree with the necessity of voicing displeasure. We should have a higher standard for Oda and One Piece compared to pretty much any other series. Thankfully, Oda had and probably still has a higher expectation than any of us.
    I don't know which came first, but the flow of the manga back to keeping everything connected implies someone from WSJ (probably not the Toei side since that's the anime side of the One Piece business) saw the potential loss of business and talked to Oda and forced him into the two half-hearted apologies we got.
    And this is the beauty of One Piece that it took 20.5 years for a small B.S. point to come up. The lack of Luffy being Yonkou/admiral level can be B.S., but thankfully it is something guaranteed to get resolved with time (within ~50 chapters from a recent Oda estimate). Yes, Oda dramatically changed and began "stretching" the story starting with the Thriller Bark arc. But that was at the request/demand of more content by the fans. That was Japan driven, but even now, the international fans (as a whole) can't get enough additional info.

    It may be to an excessive level, but the long discussions with the other micro-analyzers here covered points of disagreement. Per my responses in this thread, I'm all for people voicing the negative opinions too. If it is close to universal, it means Oda is going back to B.S. and we should vote with our dollars. I truly think every relevant aspect is 100% connected, so there could be a misconception or missed detail.
     
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  12. BooSheyt

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    Well, even I can't see Luffy can defeat either Big Mom or Kaido on his own. Simply just like Goku never beat Jiren on his own.
    One Piece is a matter of being with nakama and their own goals, it's not just power alone. By achieving their each goal, they should move forward altogether.
     
  13. KKG

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    This is a new concept of action i have a hard time to agree.
    Seiryu also tried to expain it and very well.
    Comparisons can't be avoided with other characters,i wouldn't expect too much about DBS,it killed the original story and made the anime a huge mess.
    I allways admire the way Luffy was being developed because it's impossible for a rubber man to be that strong but right now with more abilities and haki on his side his development is frozen in time.
    Before we saw duels like Jabra vs Sanji and Kaku vs Zoro,Luffy vs Lucci.
    Now with haki i see him running and fighting with poor performances.
    He is actually downgrading instead of upgrading.
    If i look at the past of the SHs and i look it now i see a bunch of different characters in a world too big for them with no future.
    They need a new time skip!
    Or they would be facing death many times until we can see those duels again?
    If the enemy is allways ahead of them plot armor will be used to protect them every time.
    Get more allies is important but not to rely on them everytime.
    History doesn't talk about dependable weaklings.
    If Oda wants Luffy to be a king he should give him royal power to rule not royal plot armor and battles who seem to be unfair for the villains.
    They are more powerfull than him but they can't kill him because of plot armor but he can somehow beat them after other characters injure them many times.
    Who can believe a character like this in a fight?
    Not me obviously.
     
  14. onami

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    I agree with you. Strawhats are weak. Like Blackbeard said “ it’s too early for him to be an emperor. Like Garp said “ it’s not enough”. He defeated doflamingo with the help of law. He defeated cracker with the help of nami. The only shichibukai he defeated totally by himself was crocodile. Even with Moria, he took the help of shadows. Even he was pushed too far, fight with rob lucci was daaamn impressive.

    If you see through the entire story, luffy always gets upgraded. When you see fight with katakuri, he’s trying to master looking into the future. He took this fight more as a practical lesson. Now if you see him, he uses his new power just like a regular kenbonshaku no haki.

    He ran away from big mom. One effortless punch by kaidō and he was put into prison. An emperor is not that weak. If he was defeated like that then he’s not. I think 1.5b is more for luffy.

    But the upgraded versions of haki is now making sense for people like shanks, sabo and garp who’re more powerful than devil fruit users.
     
  15. BooSheyt

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    I guess, there's no need for a new time skip. What for did Oda bring the Big Mom Pirates on Wano? Simply might because to lessen the alliance's hassle and burden. We know that in their current situation, they needed more power to at least on par on the enemies'. However, Big Mom Pirates could at least take down Kaido's Army on their own.
    I cannot agree that Oda would give Luffy an invincible power to be a King, of course as we can see that Luffy is learning new technique, seems to be a good idea. Slowly but surely, He will become a King on his own eventually.
     
  16. Jawahib

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    Shame on me for not seeing this earlier!

    Aaalrighty, I'm trying to decipher exactly what the complaint is here - specifically why you think it's valid. It doesn't seem like an issue with internal consistency or world-building, but more around theme and the shifting dynamic of arcs in the New World. The best I can make out about this complaint is "this isn't the same One Piece that it used to be".

    So, correct me if I'm wrong, but it plays out something like this: Luffy has always been, from East Blue all the way through Paradise, the unsuspecting prodigy. The only people who ever know how strong he "really" is going into an arc are his nakama at the time, and of course the audience. But the characters in a new island, both allies and enemies, don't actually know just what he's capable of, and they all tend to find out when he takes out the biggest, baddest guy around in the peak of their power. So, it's incredibly entertaining for us the audience to watch as he takes a new land by storm, struggles a bit, gets a little stronger, and then wipes out the local evil. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking that story structure - it's what lured me and many fans into the series and works pretty well in general.

    As a bit of an aside, I'd like you to note the paradox:. If Luffy is going to have to struggle everywhere he goes, and some places are exponentially more dangerous than others, there is a power gap that is incredibly difficult to overcome from a writing perspective. If he has to just manage to beat Crocodile, or Lucci, how's he gonna beat Doflamingo, or, down the line, a Yonko in the same format? Well, the bandaid solutions have been the Gears, and the time skip. The long-term solution has been Haki. But even Haki is starting to reach its limits and it still doesn't look like Luffy is able to bridge the gap.

    But going back to the main point; we had this beloved structure with the exception of Sabaody for every main Straw-Hat-driven arc we've seen. They go to a place -> make a friend who's oppressed by the big bad -> take out the big bad -> move on. But we're out of juice. We've hit the Yonko wall. The biggest bads. As you say, the Straw Hats are now too weak for the formula to work. What's going to happen now? Do we get the same, trustworthy formula and a big power-up? Well, as @Marco Polo said, that'll surely just be called an ass-pull.
    Is Luffy gonna 1v1 them, as he is so determined to do? We've seen the difference in power now, and it doesn't seem likely either. So realistically, we're thinking of a team effort. Luffy is going to need help. His 1v1s can't get him any further, because he is "too weak" to continue all on his own. But there's nothing technically "wrong" with this. It makes the best sense internally. It doesn't directly contradict anything narratively. It's all still perfectly believable (certain concessions aside).

    The reason I laid this all out is because if I stopped you at any point during your thread and said "well what do you think you're really complaining about?", my guess is that the answer would be something like "this isn't the same One Piece that it used to be". That might not be it though - it might be more specific. Maybe you think Oda's veering too far from the formula? Maybe you're concerned that Oda will try and force the formula to work despite it not narratively making any sense? To be clear, the reason I'm trying to rephrase your criticism in this way is because my response to this thread is very simply "But why does it matter that the Straw Hats are weak?" There's something deeper there that I'm trying to unpack. Because people have seemed to imply the validity of the criticism based on their responses - they agree with the criticism and thus implicitly agree that it's valid, or try to disprove the criticism with ways around it or attack the criticism itself.

    But generally: yeah, I agree. We haven't got Luffy kicking doors down and delivering justice as effectively as usual. It is messing with the story's theme. I enjoyed this show because I loved seeing Luffy's bold approach to his problems, and having his bravery, resilience and tenacity rewarded with complete victory and friendship. But post-Dressrosa has taken us away from that now. Now we've got a real underdog story. Someone who is actually weaker, who isn't secretly the strongest one on the island, but also the one who has to win for the arc's payoffs. And the thing that's so frustrating from a thematic perspective is that we're still getting that vibe - the Wano-ans and the Beast Pirates and even the Big Mom Pirates (especially Katakuri) thought Luffy was too weak for things that he ended up pulling off. But in both cases (Wano and WCI) it was tainted with the knowledge that Luffy isn't stronger than the real big bad anymore. That we're living on scraps via commanders and lower-ranked pirates because the Yonko are undeniably stronger. Because the reality is, despite knowing that we now have an underdog story far different to any arc prior, he's still sticking to that formula on the small scale, and it just isn't the same.


    So, what are our options now? We can stop reading the manga and abandon the series. One Piece isn't what it used to be, and what it is now isn't as enjoyable anymore since the changed themes have changed our reception of it. We can ride it out and criticise the new direction, in the hopes we'll see some kind of reversion (though I'm quite convinced this is impossible now). We could also hope that our concerns are unfounded - that there actually is a satisfying ending to Wano that Oda has planned involving a 1v1 with Luffy and solution that doesn't seem like an ass-pull (though my mind can't imagine such a thing).
    I can only speak for myself here, but my engagement with One Piece isn't based entirely on theme. I am absolutely enamoured with the world building, and of course the characters, and that's what keeps me going. I simply want to see what happens next, and I don't mind deviation from the formula all that much.

    My concerns with the series are all the shortcuts being taken now. My investment in the world-building took a pretty big hit with how Haki has been introduced and changed over time, and I am quite concerned that Oda has no other recourse than to continue creating "tension" in fights by just having Haki get stronger and stronger DBZ-style until it all becomes rather meaningless. This point aside, I hope you don't think I've been unfair in my response to you.
     
  17. KKG

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    A very good point,the concept of haki seems like ki because a higher level is strong at defense and offense.
    But all i have seen are upgrades who change Luffy's body consuming more energy than an Antonov-225 just to knock out his enemies.
    It's even worse than you said because i'm pretty sure Oda is now out of options to get Luffy to the next level,he has no idea how to improve him.
    With Gear 4th he has speed and strenght but it's limited.
    Every other Gear 4th forms are useless too and have the same problem.
    And what type of power he would have with his awakening that can give him the power to face enemies who are undisputable top fighters?
    Turning his surroundings into rubber can only help him to fall on soft land but he is already made of that material and his enemies will fall on the same soft land.
    Turning his enemies into rubber isn't possible because rubber is not an effect paramecia like mero or ito.
    Any upgrade must be physical because of Luffy's fighting style and the properties of his DF.
    The properties of rubber are resistance to blunt damage,bullets and stretching,if he coats himself with haki he can protect himself from any attack but if his gears all come from the balloon world then he will allways be limited by time.
    If Oda doesn't want Luffy to be overpowered his limitations are useless because he can't beat the strongest enemies without plot armor abuse and side help even if he didn't have limitations,he is just humillianting his character,it could be a fetish but don't ask me!
    Oda must be thinking now what can a body of rubber do better than stretch?
    Inflate like a balloon and use haki coating...It didn't work.
    To melt rubber he needs heat,he will melt his own body with that heat coming from his blood?
    And Haoshoku can only be used to intimidate weaklings,it doesn't work on strong enemies with or without that type of haki.
    Observation gives him power to feel the moments of Kizaru but the speed of light is unbeatable.
    Kaido can't be killed or knocked out,Big Mom has a very tough skin and Teach has a DF that can suck everything and spit where he wants.
    There is no way to beat enemies like these,either he kills them or they will kill him.
    Enel's defeat was already a disaster,he had no busoshoku haki so it was impossible to hit him.
    It doesn't matter what outcome the battle with Kaido,Big Mom and Teach might have,it will not be logical even by the story standards.
     
  18. Zanekin

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    Seems like it’s been a while since this thread started but I understand where the comments came from. I think we’re in a better position now for a few of the Straw Hats.

    Luffy has been learning advanced armament haki and will actually be able to hurt Kaido and Big Mom now. Still won’t be able to beat them but can at least chip at them.

    Sanji’s raid suit should still be an upgrade though we don’t know how much it should be worth.

    Zoro just got Enma which will be a massive upgrade from what we have seen already. He changed the coastline on accident without taming it or making it a “black sword”

    Still think Jinbe shows up and he should be considered on par with Zoro at the very least.

    Nami still has Zeus. A massive upgrade for her that I honestly think she’ll get to keep somehow.

    The rest of the SH’s however are just kind of chilling.
     

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