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Discussion in 'Konnichiwa!' started by Yuuzume, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. Seiryu

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    Welcome to the forum and I look forward to reading your theories!
     
  2. Yuuzume

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    Thank you for the welcome,it's appreciated.

    Some of my comments on some recent theories could be considered half theories already since they're pretty long and most are not baseless and are backed by either solid facts or plausible deductions.I say that in case you want to get a gist of what one of my theories would be like if and when I post one of my own. No guarantee it'd be similar though.
     
  3. Seiryu

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    I've been enjoying what I've read so far so I hope you have the time to continue posting. I'm the same in that I over analyze the series compared to most people, but Oda puts in so much content and character development that screams for attention.
     
  4. Yuuzume

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    I know,right? And the details that Oda introduces are not forgotten or altered when the time comes to connect them to the main story line.
    Except for a single instance,as far as I know. When Kaido was first seen,a lot of people must have recalled episode 314 (during Garp's explanation of the Yonko) and thought : Who the hell is Kaido in this picture? And why does one of them look like Big Mom had a kid with Joker from batman and introduced the kid to Brook's hair stylist?
     
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  5. Seiryu

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    The biggest and most frequent is the early haki usages in Marineford. Oda was definitely still working out the details, so there are clear inconsistencies. The most memorable is the three admirals creating a "haki shield" external to their hands. The same goes for Big Mom and especially Kaidou's character design. It's actually kind of funny to see how much better the character designs are from Oda's initial plans. A lot of the special releases have Oda's original sketches, and sometimes they stay the same, but a few characters are completely different. Kaidou is kinda in the middle though.
     
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  6. Yuuzume

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    Thanks for that reference to Marinefold since this is something I'm interested in particular.I also do have a...well,not exactly theory,more of an assumption on this matter.I might look around a bit to turn it into something something that could at least be barely considered a theory.As for the designs,it was a nice surprise,to say the least.
     
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  7. Pacquiao8

    8th Commander of the Straw Hat Grand Fleet
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    Welcome aboard!
     
  8. Yuuzume

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    Thank you very much,a nice welcome is always good to hear.
     
  9. PirateKing_D_Luffy

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    Welcome mate :-)
     
  10. Yuuzume

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    Thank you very much,it's much appreciated.As someone who likes interesting theories,I found your recent thread quite interesting.
     
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  11. PirateKing_D_Luffy

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  12. Seiryu

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    You're definitely welcome. I would say, go ahead and post it even if it is your rationale. Haki, simply because it is Oda's one B.S./deus ex machina power-up, gets people very opinionated. I'd be interested in reading it, and I know there will be others.
     
  13. Yuuzume

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    Thank you,I did post a theory about busoshoku's next stage (in my opinion that is) so you're more than welcome to read it.Always appreciate the opinions of others since they broaden my own perspective. However,that one focuses more on the evolution of an existing type of haki (busoshoku). Your reference is useful for another...assumption of mine. That one suggests that the current 3 types are not everything that haki has to offer.There could be other types that require specific conditions to be unlocked and can't be used by simply anyone,something between the 2 generic types (busoshoku,kenbunshoku) and conqueror's haki for the 'chosen ones'. For example,the technique that the Admirals used during the Marinefold war,like you mentioned,could be a haki technique passed down within the Marines and is taught only to people who reach the admiral level. "The rokushiki techniques were taught to marines so why not haki as well" is what I was thinking but there's still not much to go on as far as that subject goes.
     
  14. Seiryu

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    I really like this idea, but it would only further complicate the "mechanics" of haki. But then again, I didn't think Oda was going to bring back the magical mantra aspect ever again, so maybe he does. I know for me, the natural progression is the "haki mastery". Katakuri is the most recent example (that is specific to kenbunshoku), but the only other major example is how Rayleigh removes Keimi's explosive collar (probably a "mix" like your thoughts). Ultimately, I think the end result is the same, I just have a different name for it.
     
  15. Yuuzume

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    Indeed,the 2 ideas are not so different.The start (developing haki to a certain level) and the end (the mix) are essentially the same.They do differ somewhere in the middle,and even there,they don't contradict each other so it's also likely for both to be applied at the same time.At least,if I didn't misunderstand anything.I understood that according to your idea,the development of haki (of any type) results in the user possessing a more refined haki,with more extensive and in depth abilities.If one were to give it a name for convenience's sake,a 'master haki' if you will.At least,that's what I understood,correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  16. Seiryu

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    @Yuuzume Yup, pretty much. My personal bias on haki is that it is based on real life phenomenon, but just exaggerated for manga purposes (since pretty much every fighting manga has a version of chi/ki/chakra anyway). For example, kenbunshoku is the experience and visual capabilities of seeing the weight shifting and hip movements necessary to throw any strike with moderate power behind it. It is fully possible to throw a weak strike with no tells but the force is still moderate at most. I was wrong on Oda bringing mantra back (I still think it will not be the norm), but I definitely still think we are still only seeing the fundamentals/basics of haki.
     
  17. Yuuzume

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    I can agree that Kenbunshoku is basically the enhanced version of a seasoned fighter's 'foresight' and observation skills up to a point.But don't forget that so far Kenbunshoku has been introduced as the ability to 'know what's on your opponents mind' rather than predicting his movements.The recent fight of Luffy with Katakuri has taken our minds of the little details of Kenbunshoku. I'll give you 2 examples of that that come to mind.

    1) When Coby awoke to Kenbunshoku during the Marinefold War.He wasn't really a 'seasoned fighter' at that point and didn't really have all that much experience at that point.Anyway,the result of that haki awakening was Coby being able to hear the thoughts of Marines and Pirates alike,injured or otherwise.

    2) When Bege was entering Big Mom's tea party.Right before he entered,he had a little chat with Katakuri.Of course Katakuri is by far one the most seasoned fighters we've seen so far,his experience trumps that of many and comparing him to the Coby that we know of as of now is like comparing ants to haki wielding lions.But at that instance,there was no fighting involved and there were no predictions of attacks.Katakuri predicted Bege's 'response/words'.(Though it looked more like Katakuri threatening him to say it rather than predicting it.)
     
  18. Seiryu

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    I would argue that even the exaggerated/super-human aspect of kenbunshoku is still mind/thought related. From a martial arts standpoint, mastery is when the skill(s) become purely reactionary (takes away the 1/4th of a second for the conduction of the nerve signal). So in theory, kenbunshoku is simply "reading" the opponents subconscious. In real life, there are still patterns/preferences to each person's "style", so the elite level is when there is subconscious randomization to prevent any predictability.

    I can't disagree with the two points, since it they highlight the manga-related expansion of the real life capabilities. Although, for the Katakuri situation, any interrogator can pick up tells to get "insight" on a situation. Knowing someone is lying would make anyone at least a little more on-guard.
     
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  19. Yuuzume

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    I believe I understand what you're saying,and beautifully put by the way.I agree with your description of 'mastery' and if I understood it correctly,you 're saying that 'mastery' almost makes it seem like a martial artist's body uses skills as a reaction before he even thinks about doing so,or at least that's what it would like to some.Yes,I agree with that point.I also agree with the fact that each person fights with a unique style,which also results in a unique 'rhythm'. And a martial artist with refined 'foresight' and observation skills could decipher and 'read' that rhythm,patterns of the style,breathing,body/muscle movement,eye movement and many more such factors that indicate a person's next 'move'. However,that's where the 'reading' ends.Even the best martial artist,can read only those pieces of information and then 'make a prediction' as to what the next move will be.Even in the case that one's ability to predict is extremely accurate and makes it seem like he's reading his opponent's mind,he's really reading all the 'signs' that I mentioned and predicts based on them.Of course,I only say that because I don't particularly agree with this one sentence: "So in theory, kenbunshoku is simply "reading" the opponents subconscious." but that's only me being caught up in terminology.If I'm not mistaken,I believe that what you suggested is extremely similar to what I just described.And if that's the case,I like that way of thinking a lot and I completely agree with it.

    However,there is also Coby's example.That instance was too strong of an indication as to the highest level of Kenbunshoku to simply ignore.I believe that Kenbunshoku up to a certain level can be described with your way of thinking.But after one surpasses even that level,then that person arrives at a realm where they can literally read a person's subconscious.They surpass the leveling of 'predicting' and reach the level of true 'reading'. Of course,like in cases like Coby's,a person doesn't necessarily have to go through intense training to attain such a level if their innate abilities are already at that level without their knowing and awaken from their slumber when triggered either by a strong emotion or an external factor,like grief or a war,or both.And well,I don't particularly want to give that example,but one could possibly say that that process was similar to that of an Uchiha's sharingan.
     
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  20. Drewan

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    Welcome.
     

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