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Discussion in 'Konnichiwa!' started by jal90, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. jal90

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    Hi, ex-Oro Jackson member reporting in! I'm in various other sites as well with the same name. Somebody in a Discord channel linked to this forum like two weeks ago and I liked it a lot, but didn't consider joining in yet because I've been a bit out of the One Piece hype for a a few months. Like I decided to pause reading till the upcoming flashback was completed and found this >10 chapter monster that is still not ending because that's my great luck I guess.

    Whatever, I'll join the manga talk a bit later, but in the meanwhile, a few things about me: I'm from Spain, 29, Biologist, general movie and anime fan.

    One Piece trivia special:

    -Been into the One Piece-verse since 2012. My late blooming into the show started with the anime, which is why I have some fondness for certain filler arcs (some are just good, like G-8), and I caught up in early 2013. From then on I read the whole manga and caught up, it was in the early steps of Dressrosa at that point.

    -I'm, as said, stuck at chapter 959, just at the very moment the flashback begins.

    -My favorite arc is Water 7. With Enies Lobby, is my absolute favorite combo breaker arc.

    -My least favorite arc is the filler rainbow mist arc. In canon, probably Fishman Island.

    -While I believe pre-timeskip >>>> post-timeskip for more than a few reasons (some about the quality I perceive in the writing, some about my own liking of the events: for example, I have more fun with the laid-back vibes of the first half than the saturation of grand scale conflicts right now), I think at least Zou and Whole Cake are good enough. I'm kind of slowed down with Wano but I have hopes.

    -Nami and Usopp are both tied as favorite Straw Hats.

    -Sanji would be my current meh-est among the crew. Not a fan of his flanderized pervertness.

    -Carrot for Straw Hat has been my mantra for like four years. Oda please.

    -Vivi x Nami is perfectly headcanon.

    -My least favorite character must be somebody that I don't even care to remember. On the other hand, I am not very fond of Sabo, or at the very least, his role at Dressrosa. That would be my most shocking dislike.

    That's all for the time being, I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun in here talking about stuff (manga pirates in special). Nice to meet you!
     
  2. Kia

    Kia
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    Welcome to OPF! I hope that you’ll enjoy yourself here. Obviously you’re making your way around the place. ^_^ That’s a great introduction!
    As someone who also stalled out reading during the flashback and came back to it later, I will say that it’s a much better read all at once, IMO. It did manage to suck me back in...

    Is this based on the anime or the manga? Since you said that you transitioned right around here, I’m curious. Also, did/do you still watch or solely read now?
    What’s her dream? They all have a dream to accomplish/obtain—a reason to be on the ship. What’s hers? When is it complete?

    I can get behind this. ^_^
    Likewise!
     
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  3. Yosnob D

    M E L A N C H O L Y ™
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    Hola mi amigo!


    Have fun and enjoy your stay here in OPF, mucho gusto.


    very well said bro :zorolaughing:
     
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  4. Marco Polo

    monkey d. chadmin
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    Welcome to OPF!
     
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  5. jal90

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    #5 jal90, Feb 4, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
    I was considering catching up now since I also ended an important exam a week ago. Or probably waiting till the next chapter which looks like a closure (judging from spoilers). Great timing for a hiatus, really. :persevere:

    On the manga. I caught up with the manga more or less when the Tontatta raided Robin, Franky and Usopp. At the time the anime was still in Punk Hazard if I remember correctly. Later on, I've watched till more or less 2/3 of Dressrosa, a bit more. I'm stalled at episode 725 and planning to catch up, but it's not likely to be any time soon.

    Damn, it's been a long while since I last debated this xD. It used to be a pretty hot topic back at Oro Jackson, but Carrot is super out of the narrative in this arc :(

    When I first considered her as a potential Straw Hat I was fine with simply letting her live the adventure she wanted, because I believe that, and not just a major dream, is the essence of a crewmate. I agree that something solid is preferable and would make it more tangible though. It hasn't been yet stated like that, but I have particular interest on what Pedro told her, when and how. Following Luffy to view/help build this so-called "dawn of the Minks" sounds like a viable dream, and it's very similar in that sense to what Jinbe's dream (which is not directly stated) could be. It could have interesting connections as well, seeing that Zunisha was around during the Void Century and Pedro at least suspected something to focus his quest on Poneglyphs.

    Given that, if there's a point for this dream to be completed, I would point at some time when the information from the Poneglyphs is fully revealed.

    Oh, I see you are a shipper of culture as well.

    Thanks!

    Thank you and nice to meet you! *hides the almost equal indifference towards Zoro*

    Thank you!
     
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  6. Edinbour

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    Welcome to the Forum!
     
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  7. Leandro

    I hate every haters of the anime in my avatar
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    Welcome,i hope you like other anime,not just One Piece
     
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  8. Kia

    Kia
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    This is the best argument that I’ve heard for Carrot being a SH, honestly. Everything else that I’ve seen has had no substance or seemed to be based purely on esoteric interest in her as a character (eg. she’s cute, her personality, etc). None of that is enough to justify her being nakama with a story that has this many layers to it, IMO.
    Pretty much all much ships are same-sex, yes indeed. ^_^
    Ah, my impressions of him in that arc are from the anime version, that’s why I asked. I know that it tends to be more fleshed out. So I was wondering. And yes, time is a factor for such things. That’s understandable. ^_^
    LMAO. okay... I’ll bite, what’s the meh causing factor for him? ^_^ (Granted I agree with Sanji’s perviness though I do think that his backstory explained his messed up way of relating to women and I think he’s got some repressed sexuality stuff going on but that’s just me.)
     
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  9. Leandro

    I hate every haters of the anime in my avatar
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    Instead of Carrot Oda should put Boa Hancock on the crew.
    But there is a bias against her,she has to remain as a plot device.
    Eiichiro Oda sucks!:tongueclosed:
    He has a fetish for furries!!! Weird.
     
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  10. Dreamer

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    Welcome to the forum. I hope you have fun here as much as you had in Oro Jackson :).
     
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  11. jal90

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    Thank you!

    Thanks! I do, and quite a lot. I watch many quiet slice of life type shows. I have an account with the same name in MyAnimeList. And in Letterboxd, if you want to check on my movie logging as well.

    I know, it's far from set in stone, but it's fun to theorize. Next crewmate discussion can be very entertaining. Been rooting for Carrot for very long and I wish her situation wasn't kinda stalled right now. It added a lot of fun to my interactions with the community. It was a bit stressful at times as well if things got too heated xD

    This stuff about Zunisha and relating it to the dawn of the Minks is something I just made up on a whim to be honest, it's not very grounded. But there's a number of well-constructed theories about the character. Some more of a reach, some reasonable, some fun to read (like a little one that lists the polar opposites between Jinbe and Carrot, always loved that one).

    I see you keep delivering culture. Usopp x Kaya is really the only exception
    and even that comes after the greatest ship of the OPverse, Usopp x Sogeking.

    I think my issue with Sabo is that he literally came from nowhere, stole a spotlight and his further actions beyond taking the fruit were a bit too irrelevant to get as much focus as he did. I would probably have liked him a lot more in an arc that didn't feel as packed as Dressrosa. I did like him more in the Reverie.

    It may sound petty and it is xD, but I'm not a big fan of swordfighting. Nothing really against Zoro (except, uh, the way he treated Tashigi in Punk Hazard), I even liked the guy enough to be a top5 Straw Hat for a long while, it's just that he and his fighting are a bit boring to me. I liked him more when the story focused more on emphasizing his silly antics, right now everything turned more serious and solemn. And since I don't like swordfighting much, I'm not a fan at all of the sword lore Oda throws from time to time (swordbuilding, eheh).

    About Sanji and his past... I honestly wanted this backstory to mean something to his behaviour towards women. But I don't think the pervy, lately creepy and even predatory attitude he shows has anything to do with his past. And I was quite disappointed that, after basically been saved and looked after by women in his childhood, it turns that his entire philosophy on respecting and not hurting women comes from the words that Zeff taught him.

    Sanji has never been a favorite to me, but the flashback felt like a wasted opportunity to give more spotlight and context to his personality and that bugs me even more because we are probably not going to have another chance to further understand and change our minds about the character.


    [​IMG]

    But I'm not against Boa in the crew xD

    Thank you! I hope I have even more fun, to be honest. Things weren't always smooth in Oro Jackson xD
     
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  12. Kia

    Kia
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    Making stuff up spur of the moment is the best way to go. It’s generally how all of my ideas come to me. Like the material has been percolating in my brain and things just bubble to the surface all of a sudden. ^_^

    OMG, that last one is amazing. How do you even...? @Dreamer did you see this? That’s like the naïveté of Chopper combined with the proclivities of Iva-chan... I dig it.

    I feel like maybe I need to see what was left out in the manga versus the anime? In order to have this discussion properly lol. So I’m going to table it and get back to you. Though I do appreciate your insights. ^_^

    The Tashigi thing aside (I think that was justifiable). I can see how that would ruin him, sure. We all have our preferences. ^_^

    Again I’m thinking this is an anime versus manga difference. Because they put a great deal of focus on the Zeff part of his backstory in the anime as well. How important he is to him, his role as his father. His shaping of his life/morals, etc. He was molded by the frailty of his mother, his sister was kind and strong but also weak and vulnerable in her own ways because she only helped him when she wasn’t at risk of becoming a victim herself. That combined with Zeff’s admonition about the status of women had him put them in a different category and never treat them as equals. His mentality is from the dinosaur age in that he’s not clear on what equality really is. Hell he doesn’t even know what his own worth is let alone what anyone else is worth. When your own father doesn’t want you, that’s scarring. It messes with you in ways that damage your self worth, your sense of identity, your sexuality, it’s heavy. We got all of that soul crushing angst. We also got the ways in which the relationship with Zeff helped to repair him just a bitch by giving him that bond—the moment he realizes he gains it. The moment he’s got a name and not a nickname. There’s so much there. I dunno. I hear you but there’s a lot in the flashback, IMO.

    Not that I’m belittling Sora’s strength and sacrifice. She was brave and amazing. But in his eyes, she just needed to be protected more., methinks. Anyways, I’m babbling—as I’m prone to do. I’ll shush now. ^_^

    PS. Is that a Yuri Camp avatar? I haven’t finished that one yet but I’m enjoying it so far. ^_^
     
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  13. Chaudfontaine

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    Hellooo! Welcome!
    Not liking Sanji? Ah too bad! Luckily the OP universe is vast and full of other characters!

    Some big things are coming to our little forum, so sit back and enjoy!

    Edit: Vivi x Nami do look good together ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
     
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  14. Leandro

    I hate every haters of the anime in my avatar
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    You may not be but Oda is and that prevents her from be there and that sucks!
    Carrot is just a cute furry,Boa is Aphrodite.
    Oda should be guilty of disrespect for the most beautiful of all godesses.
    His crime against the Olympus was using the most beautiful godess as a plot device in a story and waste her in some island.
    Death penalty.
    Enel (@Judgement) will have to execute him.
    Sanji can at least love beauty and that is honorable for all of us as long he doesn't spy on girls taking shower.
     
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  15. jal90

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    #15 jal90, Feb 5, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
    I mean, I'm surprised that nobody is shipping them, it's very clear that they share a very intimate relationship, just because it's not shown on screen doesn't make it less obvious.

    To be fair I didn't notice much of a difference between the manga and anime content in this aspect. A couple more scenes of Sabo perhaps in the anime, but overall as unsatisfying one way or the other to me. Now, there is a chance that the character has more development in the 30 episodes or so of Dressrosa I haven't yet watched (particularly his amnesia flashback which uuugh I hated in the manga), and perhaps something in the Episode of Sabo movie I haven't seen either.

    Uhm, I think the Tashigi bit may be justifiable in the general cocky attitude of Zoro; it's not a character trait I'm very fond of though, and particularly not with Tashigi because it clashes with the original conflict he had with her and his resemblance to Kuina. I guess two years passed but still it kind of resonates in a bad way with his own backstory.

    Also, I wouldn't say he's ruined, really, I still like him a considerable amount. I guess I'm making it look more dramatic than it is. Same with Sanji because I'm giving the impression that I despise him xD

    I wish I could babble half as coherently as you do xD

    That's probably the issue though. In the manga this is, narratively speaking, kind of a passing thought. It happens a lot lately with the manga, too much information ends up compressed in hope perhaps that it will be properly filled with emotion and context in the anime. So the execution makes my issues with the flashback even worse because it's like:
    Oda: lengthy flashback focused on Sanji's childhood and being essentially raised (Sora) and helped (Reiju) by women, so I start to assume that this may be the origin of his attitude towards women. After all, if the only female role models he knew were kind-hearted and positive in a world where he is constantly tortured and belittled, it would be natural to develop these feelings and to associate the female gender with a fundamental kindness and lack of malice.
    *Random cut to Zeff casually telling Sanji to never hurt a woman*
    Oda: this here is the sole reason why Sanji never hurts women.
    Me: excuse me Oda-sama

    So basically it's about the lack of gravity of the second compared with the first, and about how the first explains things more perfectly than Oda maybe gave credit for, to the point it didn't even need the second to reach that conclusion in the character's mindset.

    Not that I fully disagree about your stance on Sora, but I don't think it resonated that way to Sanji when he was a kid, at least that's my impression with the manga. Rather, he was the one who felt protected by Sora.

    It is and I approve your typo :yay:. One of my favourite anime shows. I hope you keep enjoying it!

    Oh, I still like Sanji, just not so much compared to other mains, and I dislike some of his ways, lately in special. As said I don't think there's many characters I can say I hate, and most of them I wouldn't even bother remembering.

    Thanks for your welcome, I'm sure I'll enjoy the place, it's already great and chill.

    Also, glad to see you are on board as well. This ship will sail all the way to Raftel.
     
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  16. Kia

    Kia
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    Well I’m thinking that it fits both quite well. Even if she syncs with Kuina in his mind, he’d treat her how? Like a fellow swords person, right? Someone striving to be his equal in all ways. Thus why would he change his behavior just because... what? She looks like his dead friend? They aren’t enemies but sort of rivals ish. He gave her a shot. Time was up. He made his move. Then he didn’t want them to die, so he picked her up. What’s the problem? Maybe I’m missing something. It’s been a while lol. I guess not liking the general character trait is the problem, duh. You did say that. I’m silly, don’t mind me. I don’t know why I’m turning the introduction thread into a full on discussion. Probably because the intro was so thorough. ^_^
    I dunno if you’re really this funny or I’m in need of humor today but muchly appreciated. :tearsofjoy:
    I haven’t seen Episode of Sabo but I think the movies just replay/condense the anime episodes. And I haven’t either checked to see where your last episode leaves off or read the arc in the manga so I’m at a loss as to where the disconnect, if any, could be. I guess we could revisit this once we’ve both caught up lol.
    So rather than it be one over the other. I was trying to convey that it’s a combination of the two. People are complex. He was protected but they were still vulnerable and in need of protection. You can feel safe and instinctively know that your safe zone is at risk. That’s how it works in abusive homes. There’s safety only sometimes. It’s a fragile safety. Power dynamics are what they are. And I think that he tries to show it all. In order to ensure that we exactly get it all, he elaborates in the anime. I can never remember which article or SBS he says it in but I think @Seiryu or @Admiral Ryokugyu know. If I’m wrong, my bad.

    Hahaha thanks. I’m sure I will. And that was a special typo huh? ^_^
     
  17. Robin-Senpai Is The Best

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    Welcome to the forum!
     
  18. Seiryu

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    If we are referencing Sanji never hitting a women, it is based on Zeff. I can't recall any SBS further expanding on it. I did miss a couple years in the early 2010's so that's always a possibility. If it was an early SBS, it was just confirmation of the anime (I only remember things that don't fit/need clarification).

    The upbringing aspect of Sora/Reiju is a great point though. It is probably why Sanji is willing, eager, and 100% devoted to the morals Zeff instills.
     
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  19. Kia

    Kia
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    Actually I’m talking about the bit about Oda packing the manga full of information and fleshing things out in the anime in general. Like isn’t there somewhere that he bakes reference to his propensity to do this? Or was it my imagination?
     
  20. Dreamer

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    Yes, I saw it. I would have never thought of that :sweatsmile:.
     

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