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LET'S DEBATE - World Government = Good?

Discussion in 'One Piece Events' started by Marco Polo, Mar 14, 2019.

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  1. Marco Polo

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    hey wow marco you decided on some rules well done only took you FOREVER


    Rules Of The Debate
    • Each participant presents their case either for or against the debate topic. Once you submit your case, you cannot change sides.
    • Participants then debate with other users who have presented their cases.
    • The debate will last for 2 weeks - at the end of the 2-week period, a voting thread will open, where users vote for the member they think presented the strongest argument. It doesn’t matter if everyone presents the same side - vote for whoever you think made the most compelling points.
    • Please be civil - any users seen being abusive or insulting to other members will be disqualified.
    • In the interest of including as many users as possible and reducing textwalls, a word limit of sorts is being put in place. Participants have an upper limit of 30 lines of text (based on how long 30 lines is when you draft the post on the forum), excluding paragraph breaks and quotes from other members, for each post in the debate. Some flexibility re: half-full lines will be given, but any posts that significantly exceed this limit will be chopped by the debate moderator (@Marco Polo ) at 30 lines.
    • Writing style is your choice - you can either bullet point or use continuous prose. Just keep it below the limit, thanks.
    • There is no post limit - feel free to go back and forth as much as you want (within the word limit, please).
    • That being said, no multiposting to get around the word limit.
    • Not that I'd have to remind anyone on here but no plagiarism, please. All arguments should be the user's own.
    We'll see how these rules play out, but for now it's DEBATE time!

    Here's the topic:

    "The World Government have done more Good than Bad for the World of One Piece"
    Okay, now...

    Let's Debate!
     
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  2. Admiral Ryokugyu

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    one of the best threads i've ever seen on this forum, and the best thread idea @Marco Polo has ever come up with.

    looking forward to the discussion. I'll post my ideas when i'm home.
     
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  3. Jawahib

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    "Let's debate!" Marco says.
    "Yeet", I say.

    I'll take the more mainstream side and say "YES". I'll go through a list of what the WG [mainly] brings to the table see how the good outweighs the bad.
    Cons - The WG:
    • Brings the worst of the worst (morally speaking) to the top of the food chain so that they're deified
    • Is indifferent about wiping out entire nations of innocents to maintain their power (Ohara), or even just to exploit a resource (Law's country).
    • Contains countless examples of corruption in the ranks of the Marines where bad people are given power via rank to do evil things and are left unchecked
    • Is ultimately and irredeemably corrupt in that it is more determined to maintain its own power rather than to use it to govern honestly.
    Pros - The WG:
    • Provides an incredible stability to everyday life of the average person courtesy of the Marines and its systems
    • Ensures that the largest military power in the world works in the best interest of the common folk (on paper at least. The Marines seems to have a duty of care to the masses, despite the heavy corruption)
    • Provides an admirable pathway for the average person to better themselves and support society by joining the Navy and protecting the ordinary folk
    • Provides a sophisticated system that aims to minimise crime and assist with the creation of infrastructure in many of its constituent nations.
    • Ensures a firm grasp on World Peace (as far as nations are concerned) through their military dominance and frequent reveries that creates a medium in which countries can work together to resolve some internal issues. Such a stability is incredibly helpful in allowing for technological growth - especially in fields of medicine - which will propel the quality of life and life expectancy for everyone who is given access to them.
    The pros as far as I am concerned grossly outweigh the cons. The average person who doesn't oppose the WG in any way and isn't unlucky enough to be a nation that the WG wants dead will on the whole have their lives pretty drastically improved by its presence in the world. They will use technology/knowledge that probably wouldn't be accessible without the WG, they'll be able to contact a marine base for major security/safety concerns, and they'll be given an overall stability of life otherwise impossible without the WG's contributions to the world.

    Since I sense my 30 lines are wrapping up (this be line 28), I'll end on saying that as far as I can tell, this debate is not about creating an alternative to the WG, but rather comparing the influence the WG has on the world as a whole, because it's very tempting (for me at least) to go, "if there was no WG, there'd be an alternative", but that gets too hypothetical to work with.
    [ARGUMENT END]

    That's 30 lines, but it just occurred to me that after posting the post, the formatting will shrink the lines a bit so it may look like it's over, should I take a screenshot of how it is now to prove that it's 30 lines as I wrote it? Or should I just try and stay away from the 30 so I don't cause any trouble?
     
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  4. Kia

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    The World Government has done harm to all, even those it has seemingly helped. Freedom, “advancement” and privileges built on the disenfranchisement, exploitation and domination of others aren’t in any way, shape or form good for anyone involved. All it does is develop systems of haves and have nots, separations of entire groups of people wherein some are humanized, some are not. There’s privilege and denial, entire generations upon generations with no concept of what it means to truly live as human beings at one with one another. This is what the World Government legacy is to the One Piece world at large—disconnect, ignorance, privilege, classism, racism, NIMBYism and it very much mirrors the real world’s colonialism and globalization in that manner.
     
  5. Marco Polo

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    Not going to add to any debate right now since I'm moderating how people do with the word limit to begin with

    we have entered an alternate reality

    That looks pretty spiffy to me, like I say I'm going to give leeway for half-filled lines so you're alright
     
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  6. Kevz

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    #6 Kevz, Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    GOOD


    that which is morally right; righteousness.

    "a mysterious balance of good and evil"


    That was the definition of good in google and and righteousness definition in google is “morally right or justifiable.” so if the world government can justify their action then therefore case closed but one prime example is the buster call Our protagonist Nico Robin was an inhibitant of the island Ohara and came from a family Her mother, went out to Find the poneglyps and stuff but they were slaughtered on Ohara by the World Government through a buster call and what justification do they have of course as fans of this show they were scared because someone could uncover there secret so
    they commit manslaughter for in my opinion for selfish reasons one more reason is the world nobles and condoning slavery
    and every partaking in it for the OP forum “Currently a Shichibukai, he became a Pacifista and lost his personality and free will. He became a slave-to-rent among the World Nobles, in which he was heavily abused for the fact” guess who the victim is and not only that boa handcock is another example “on her back is the slave mark of the Celestial Dragon” and all of this despite banning slavery “slavery was prohibited by the World Government over 200 years before the current storyline” any justification for enslaving a human? I haven’t seen any so I conclude with the world government is not “GOOD” now thats some people might say they have done more than that and I reply with was the intention of WG morally GOOD they have gone back on what they had prohibited and all for their enjoyment. Yes they have made marines but with corruption I would say that even so that does not excuse their behavior
     
  7. Marco Polo

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    I'm pretty on the fence about this one personally because there's a lot of very tricky-to-answer moral questions involved here, so I'm not going to debate this from my perspective. Instead, I'm going to look at this from the perspective of the average citizen of the One Piece world. So when I refer to myself in the first person here, know that it's not "Marco Polo, internet anime nerd" but "Marco Polo, East Blue inhabitant".

    As a regular citizen, my main source of information about what's going on is the newspaper. Of course, I shouldn't believe everything I read, but there's no alternative news outlets here, so the News Coo drop is my only choice. Because I only have one source of news, my opinions on the things that I don't encounter in my daily life are based entirely off of what I read. And that includes pirates.

    As far as I'm concerned, pirates are evil and dangerous. The chances of me meeting a pirate are pretty low, and the chances of me meeting a good pirate are even lower. In fact, "good pirate" probably isn't even a phrase that enters my head. To me, Straw Hat Luffy isn't some harmless, fun loving adventurer; he's a terrifyingly evil man who's considered alongside even the Four Emperors, who also terrify me. But below the likes of Straw Hat Luffy, there's a lot of other scary pirates out there. The World Government will prevent more scary people like that from harming my town.

    The country I live in is very peaceful. There's no war going on, and even if an uprising kicked off, the Marines would step in and protect us. Why would people start an uprising anyway? Things aren't bad here. We can all live and work safely. And having a World Government presence here means that any troublemakers will be dealt with safely. Even if someone stronger than our Marine Base commander shows up, they can always send for backup. We're pretty safe here. That makes me comfortable.

    I could join the World Government if I wanted to, as well. The Marine Base would probably accept me as a recruit. Being able to protect the my loved ones from dangerous people would probably fill me with an immense sense of pride. And I'd get that opportunity from the WG itself. Not that I'd take it, though. I'm not much of a fighter.

    Sure, the Nobles might not be the nicest people. That friend of a friend who met one said they were self-important and callous. But that's just how rich people are, really. I wouldn't know. I've never met one. And all these non-human species I've read about in the news? I don't really have much of an opinion on them. When would I ever need to meet a Fishman? They probably wouldn't think of coming to my town since they hate humans so much. Those things don't really affect my daily life, so I don't really care. I just know that if anything dangerous happens, the Marines will protect us.

    And a Void Century? Never heard of it. Sounds like a cool idea for a story, though.

    When I think about the impact the World Government has had on my life and the lives of my family and friends, they've only served to make it better. I'm safe and protected from everything dangerous, and I will be for the foreseeable future. Why would I have anything bad to say about them?
     
  8. Yuuzume

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    This topic is awesome Maruko, kudos to you for suggesting it. Now, let's see what the WG has done for/to the One Piece world.

    1) They destroyed the AK along with its technology, that was advanced enough to create an island destroying weapon, causing said technology to be lost or withheld by them for their own personal use.

    2) When there was an advancement in technology through Vegapunk, who could very well be their prisoner, they withheld it to themselves and furthered their military power instead of share it with the people. Pacifista technology would have helped in healthcare and sea stone coated ships could have helped the advancement of trade and exchange of information...if it had ever been shared with the citizens.

    3) They exploit the Marines to use as a storefront and gain the trust of the people but use the Cipher Pol agents to enact their real justice for them. A known example would be Rob Lucci's "rescue" mission when he was ordered to murder 500 soldiers of a nation after its leader asked for help while they were under the false impression that the WG would actually help them.

    4) They have sole control of the flow and the contents of the information, which they exploit to keep their own messes under the rag, manipulate their enemies through false information and paint a target on the back of anyone they desire.

    5) They employ pirates in the form of the Shichibukai and let them run loose all they want. And from we've seen so far, they're essentially trading in whole kingdoms and the people living in them for the sake of...you guessed it, more military power for themselves.

    6) Now,they have to use all that military for something. That something usually ends up being people who are supposedly under their protection and were only curious about the truth. The prime known example is Ohara and its archeologists...as well as every other citizen.

    7) They gave the celestial dragons a free pass to enslave, murder, "confiscate" anything they desire and basically do anything they want without anyone stopping them.

    To summarize, the WG does offer protection but does so at a cost, which comes in the form of taxes. It offers job positions to people but they then have to comfort to the WG's "sweep any mistake under the rag" mindset, which goes against the ideals of the marines. They bring together the minds and skills of people, which leads to breakthroughs and advancements, but they keep all the results to themselves and only better their own lives and their own military power. And lastly, it may seem like they're on the moral side of things but they do exactly what their enemies do and treat the lives of their citizens like nothing. The WG essentially acts like a Yonko with their own territory and the way they go about running things looks like Big Mom's. It's just that they crave power instead of sweets and they punish any who compromises that with their own brand of dark justice instead of ripping their souls out. All in all, I'd say that the WG is doing more harm than good to the One Piece world.
     
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  9. Kia

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    #9 Kia, Mar 18, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
    What East Blue island are you from exactly,@Marco Polo? The ones of which we are aware include Dawn Island which has the Goa Kingdom known for its huge disparities in treatment of rich & poor people, ex: Grey Terminal situation, Conomi Islands where we’ve seen the results of the corruption of the 16th Marine Branch as well as the weakness/inability of the 77th at repelling/protecting the people from Arlong. Along those lines, there’s Yotsubsa Island region where Shells Town and Captain Morgan’s reign of terror were; similarly there’s Tequila Wolf that exists simply as a slave labor nation. So I wonder where this blissful East Blue paradise is that you live in, OP citizen, Marco? I could be blind but even the restaurants there have been frequented by examples of overreaching, power drunk Marines as Fullbody’s performance at the Baratie will demonstrate. If you live on the Organ Islands (Orange Town), the Marines & WG haven’t helped you. You fled one home, pirates attacked your new home. The WG gave the pirate that attacked you a title & the ones that helped you a death sentence. I see no good there.

    Edit: sorry if it’s disjointed or doesn’t make sense. Ask for clarification as needed. I’m being especially brief and blunt for the word limit plus I’m scattered lately. Also I think I might’ve gone over. Sorry. ^_^
     
  10. KKG

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    A judgemental thread...
    I love it,i'll put a like:grin:
    World Government=Evil.
    They enslave everybody,they kill or arrest everyone who can be a threat to them.
    Yet they like to show their admirals talking about justice while the only justice they defend is the one that can serve themselves better.
    They are like Erdogan or Nicolas Maduro,assholes who have a fetish for torturing their own people to stay in power.
    Get rid of this WG bullshit and put Dragon as WG and make the world of One Piece great again.
     
  11. Marco Polo

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    The Gray Terminal incident was driven by the behaviour of Nobles rather than the WG itself. Sure, you can rebut with "But they burned the Grey Terminal to pass a WG inspection", but again I'll say that the decisions of the Goa nobles and the WG authorities aren't one and the same.

    One can be happy with a system whilst still acknowledging its flaws. Being able to point out two very specific examples of corruption/abuse of power isn't proof of a system being corrupt, it's proof of certain individuals in power being corrupt. Besides, a World Government-run newspaper wouldn't openly report corruption within their system - and as a citizen with no contact to those islands, I can live my life completely ignorant of those wrongdoings.

    What's Tequila Wolf? Is it a bar? Again, ordinary Marco doesn't know about this place - it's a very well-kept secret.

    I assume this question limits me to the locations we visited (or were made aware of) during the East Blue arc. In the interest of being as ordinary as possible, I'll say Syrup Village, where our village idiot ran off to play pirate with a weird boy in a Straw Hat, a scary looking green samurai, and Oni Baba.

    Anyway. The main point I made during my opening message, and the point I'm going to re-iterate now, is that ignorance is bliss. We as readers have an entirely different perspective on the current geopolitical situation of the One Piece world than an ordinary resident would. We know about a lot of the cover-ups and acts of misguided justice that permeate the WG ranks, but most citizens of the One Piece world aren't. Even when you acknowledge the possibility that a common citizen may have heard about a few of these incidents, there's still not enough evidence for them to declare the Government morally corrupt - at best, they can say: "You know that guy who ran the Shells Town Marine Base? Bit of a douche. Glad he's gone." The One Piece world doesn't yet suffer from the same levels of internal strife and public scepticism that ours does, and rebels to the Government cause (pirates, RA) are still widely considered as dangerous troublemakers rather than justice-seeking revolutionaries, so there's no reason for the majority of citizens to consider the WG as anything but trustworthy protectors.
     
  12. Kia

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    #12 Kia, Mar 18, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
    Let’s look at these, shall we? The WG member nations operate with autonomy, though the WG reserves the right to intervene if there’s a situation where their interests are at stake. As such, they do not actively provide infrastructure, services, etc except in the specific cases where there’s a Marine outpost or base in a location. To what sophisticated system are you referring? The Marines as an admirable pathway is questionable in practice for the public, as it depends on which Marines have been encountered, as is true with all law enforcement and military. Some join for the right reasons and some for the wrong ones. We’ve seen evidence of this in OP with the all ranks of Marines regardless of the ideology on paper. The Marines and their systems have been proven to be at the beck and call of the Celestial Dragons, as such, their true purpose is not to protect the people at large and if it boils down to it, would destroy them in favor of the CDs.

    If one has got issues that are both big enough to require bringing to the larger table and stable enough to be able to wait four years, then yes, sure, Reverie is perfect, provided that the WG will listen and not simply kick you out or turn on you. After all, it depends on the issue. Fishman Island has had to wait for 16 years to get to Reverie between the reaction to Fisher Tiger’s actions causing a ban and the incident with Hody Jones that no amount of WG membership prevented because there’s no presence in the nation to help uphold peace—as is true for many constituent nations. This is how Wapol was able to monopolize the medical technology of the Drum Kingdom.

    The people of Dressrosa were suffering whilst under the rule of a WG supported leader, as a member country, meanwhile Doflamingo was providing weapons that allowed other countries to go to war, including WG ones (the Kingdom of Biggschotts/Doerena Kingdom was one of the ones shown in the anime as doing trade and being fearful of getting caught) from the fact that the RA liberated several of them later.
    4E4AA8C8-61EC-4161-B876-3499940084FA.jpeg
    As I expressed in my post to citizen Marco earlier, I see a dearth of good here.


    PS. As I was composing this, there was a response but I cannot reply to it until there’s another post so I guess there’ll be some delays since I chose to engage with two people unless the mod gives me permission. ^_^

    Edit: still waiting for permission to engage @Marco Polo or did I misunderstand the rules and was allowed to reply all along?
     
  13. Dreamer

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    In my opinion, World Government isn't good. I know that it has done some good things, like securing citizens safety with Marines but we know that they have done many bad things.
    • They killed all Ohara's people - children too, who knew nothing about what scholars of Ohara were studying - just to make sure that nobody who knows about the Void Century would spread the information forward.
    • The World Government knew that Amber Lead Syndrome isn't contagious but they did nothing to correct the misbelief or help the Flevance's people.
    • They allow Celestial Dragons freely enslave, torture and kill anybody they want and instead protecting citizens, the World Government will punish anybody who opposes Celestial Dragons.
    • They don't help any country that isn't able to pay the Heavenly Tribute.
    • There's the Empty Throne that symbolizes peace and equality between royal families and that the world doesn't have a single ruler. But what happened in the chapter 908? Some shady guy called Im sat on that throne, implying that he/she is the ruler of the world.
    Just like an old proverb says: All that glitters isn't gold. The World Government has done lot of things in order to maintain the peace of world but they have done it via lying, manipulation and massacre. So yeah, I can't make myself say that the World Government would be mostly good.
     
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  14. Zeek

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    #14 Zeek, Apr 3, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
    Time to dab on y'all with the truth about the World Government and it's corruption outweighs the good that they have done and the minimal accomplishments they have achieved.
    • Let's look at what the World Organization actually is first. Essentially it's a dictatorship that masquerades as allowing some type of "representation" in the Reverie. When, in reality, Im is the ultimate decision maker who keeps the masses blind to the truths of the world. Control through ignorance is a fundamental evil fought around the world.
    • Now let's look at Ohara. A filthy tragedy that can be discussed in the same breath as the Holocaust. The World Government is willing to go as slaughtering an entire Island of people to prevent the truth's of the Void Century.
    • Easily, another atrocious act by the World Government is their hands-off approach to slavery. While it's officially illegal, they very much ignore the practices happening right under their noses in order to appease the elites of the world.
    • Another issue, the World Government ignores the tyrannical rule of many of their protectorates and have been shown to extort those same people with heavy costs. Even after offering protection they allow the Shichibukai to run rampant and essentially ignore the Yonkou's actions.
    • The World Government also carries out assassinations as they see fit.
    • Finally, they don't have any real type of judicial system. There is no trial or basis for a real understanding of what's "illegal". Take Luffy for example, is he really a threat to the World Government? He's not pillaging, he's not murdering, he's not raping, and he hasn't stole anything substantial. Ace would have been murdered simply for existing had his mom not turned into a super incubator.
    My argument is this, can we, as conscientious observers, truly look at such wrongdoings and claim that the ends justify the means? We cannot. Dictatorship-like politics, corruption at the highest level, slavery, slaughtering of dissenters, assassinating political enemies, a social system propping up an elite-by-birth group, and extortion of everyday citizens. If this government were in our world it wouldn't classify as a First World Country and it would be guilty of many crimes against humanity.
     
  15. lucci

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  16. Chaudfontaine

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    The world goverment is my opinion like communism. A good idea/theory corrupted by the hands of individuals.

    If we let the foundation troubles slide, there can be seen that the intention of the WG was and is protection of ordinary civilians.
    They try to make a workable system by having the world governement as the legislative power and the marines as the executive power.

    The problem comes after ages of the implemention of this system, where the legislative power has become a more familial matter like feodal lords and the executive power that tries to force their idea of justice and laws on the people as a general after a military coup. The balance of the powers is disturbed by not placing the right person for the job on the right job. If the legislative power had been the most efficient, the opposition (the pirates or the revolutionaries in this case) should be less violently active.

    These quotes below are examples people already mentioned that can be categorized into two different groups.
    The first one being an individual corruption of the system by a bad person due to blood succesion instead of ability succession.
    The quotes are from the second group, the system itself, the idea that was formed. Prosperity of the common people due to stability, peace and connectivty.
    To conclude:
    The system, the idea is good for the people who fall under it. The reality made by the individuals is horrible.
     
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  17. KKG

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    If you don't agree with some comunists welcome to the club.
    But the idea isn't good,it's flawled from the first day it came out.
    They only bring poverty,twisted justice,misery,lack of good sense,post apocalyptic world and death.
    The base of comunism is the world of One Piece.
    Talk about justice but do whatever it takes to sit your ugly ass in that big chair,people are only good to die for you while your pockets get deep.
    If they don't agree with being ripped by this fucked up system,arrest them or kill them.
    And in that world the biggest criminals are free as birds and only the innocent die.
    No blood who deserves to be spilled will be spilled in that story,i'm sure of it.
    Screwed up justice systems create hate instead of order and respect.
     
  18. Chaudfontaine

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    i don't know if this is side tracking or not but I have to disagree.
    The WG system is intended to be a diversion of power and wealth to a large population. Not just the happy few. It turned bad real fast, but that's due to individuals/bloodlines, not the system.
     
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  19. Jawahib

    Both Exotic and Professor
    Busoshoku Haki YouTube Team
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    Haha it absolutely is a side diversion and your opening statement was the reason I chose not to respond at all.

    This debate topic is dancing along the line between OP politics and real world politics (since real world politics are our frame of reference, and interestingly Oda's frame of reference as well), and that... never ends well on the internet. My personal view is that real world politics should only be discussed between people who already respect/love each other since a strong friendship is the only thing that I've seen that is powerful enough to withstand the incredible divisive force that is the nature of these discussions. Case in point, simply stating alignment with any political perspective on the internet will result in some people absolutely despising you to the point of dehumanising you for that reason alone. Of course, this bothers some people more than others, and plenty of people don't care about da haterz and will voice their opinion anyway, but it's for these reasons that I've kept my view on this topic pretty much restricted to only things in the OP world.

    That said, I never got around to responding to Kia, so here goes:
    So I think you're more correct on this one that I thought originally. We don't really see very much assistance given to countries at an internal level, so I'll accede this one.
    The Marines: I probably should've clarified that originally. Say what you like about the Marines; there's no question it's sophisticated in its structure. It has a complete hierarchy and management system and is (as far as we know) the best-equipped and largest fighting force in the world.
    Of course I agree that the "true" ideology of the Marines is a facade with the interests of the World Nobles behind it, however the reality is that most blue collar Marines will never know that in their lifetimes, let alone the general public. They will believe, as Coby does, that the Marines are designed to protect civilians and fight the evil pirates. Thus, generally, it is morally admirable for them to sign up, since they are willing to risk their lives for others. Another reason I cite it as "admirable" is because joining the Navy is a great way for someone to learn discipline and learn how to structure their lives better - not as significant, sure, but still worth noting. Finally I don't accept the idea that the public have mixed feelings about the Marines as a whole, purely because we don't have enough examples (I can't think of any honestly) where innocent folk felt in any way intimidated by representatives of Marines as a first impression. Even if you think of places that have been the worst affected by Marine corruption (I'm thinking of Nami's hometown here, and I can't remember if they ever found out about the Marines' collusion with Arlong), I'm under the impression that those people, if they had known that the Marine captain was aware of their situation but ignored it since Arlong was paying him off, wasn't indicative of an institution that abandoned them, but rather of a weasel who was playing the system to get rich.
    It's quite clear to me that the public trust the institution and what it represents, and don't associate the corruption they might hear about with the Marines they see in real life. For all intents and purposes, they view the Marines as a military force that works in their favour.

    [Shortening for the 30 line rule] I was referring to the countries helping each other out with resources/advice as opposed to the WG directly intervening.
    True, but that's a corrupt exception. The same WG that let it go on for so long was the same one that arrested and condemned DD, and the same one that the countries you mentioned are "fearful of getting caught" by. Clearly, at least to the public, the principles are still being followed through.
     
  20. Kia

    Kia
    All about amare, anima, and anime.
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    Sorry for the delay, two weeks ended ages ago. Thought this was a dead thread. ^_^
    So in the interest of brevity, Axe-Hand Morgan: he ruled Shell’s Town with fear, it’s the basis of his character (https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Morgan), then there’s the members of G-5 who were shown abusing power and threatening citizens who were trying to find their missing children (that had been taken by Caesar and covered up by Vergo) in Chapter 673/Episode 599.

    To my knowledge, we have no evidence of this happening outside of pre-existing friendships that don’t seem to have anything to do with Reverie or the WG itself as the cooperation between nations was only that at Dressrosa. That which was shown at Reverie was due to Luffy’s influence on the royals and others involved in the Shirahoshi debacle (other than the Donquixote who was a Celestial Dragon plus was influenced by Otohime).

    They arrested him because they had a freaking revolution on their hands. They didn’t have the power to do anything else after witnessing what had been done. Besides which, if Fujitora hadn’t been there, it likely would’ve gone down entirely differently. My point is that when there’s corruption and darkness at the foundation of a system, and that system programs people to obey and believe in it, it’s not good. You’ve not only conceded the latter point, you’ve cited it as a positive. Basically, the Marine hierarchy and structure is a dangerous tool. It doesn’t foster free or critical thinking. I know how basic training works. You saw what almost happened to Coby for speaking out at Marineford. Insubordination is not brooked. You fall in line and follow orders. That’s the kind of discipline and structure that’s given. Do as the Celestial Dragons and CP-0 say: Rob Lucci and company represent the values of the World Government. How can that be good?
     
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