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The makings of a Yonkou! Mastery Explained

Discussion in 'One Piece Theories' started by ckimbrew, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. ckimbrew

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    #1 ckimbrew, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
    Lets start with an overview of the stages of learning. There are 4 of them and they are below. Along with each, I have added brief laymen descriptions and accompanying photos of Luffy chronologically advancing through each of these stages.
    IMG_8656.PNG

    We have seen this learning process put into use by Oda with Luffy learning all 3 types of haki. Observation, Armament, and Conquers’s Haki. Briefly, recall Luffy learning Armament and only being able to use correctly it only about 50% of the time.


    1. Unconscious Incompetence - You don't know what you don't know… Not even aware something exists or is even possible. Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.23.59 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.27.38 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.27.54 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.28.04 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.28.21 PM.png
    2. Conscious Incompetence - You are made aware of something that you did, but you don't know how you did it. (with Kujua, Impel Down, Marine Ford all before receiving training.) Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.34.04 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.34.24 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.34.57 PM.png IMG_8657.JPG
    3. Conscious Competence - You are aware of it and can even do it, but you have to focus deeply to pull it off and it is still not done 100% accurately, but you can tell when you made a mistake. You can be very proficient here and even considered slight mastery. This is where a lot of people end up because there are so many levels and you can become overconfident with slight success and slip back into level 2… (two instances at Fishman Island, Punk Hazard, twice at Dressrosa) Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.40.19 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.40.35 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.39.56 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 12.40.46 PM.png IMG_8675.JPG
    4. Unconscious Competence - This is a level of mastery. You don’t even have to think about it, you just do perfectly unconsciously. And now we are here!! IMG_8676.PNG Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 1.14.44 PM.png

    With this as my supporting evidence, I want to prove and discuss the following:
    1. Luffy is indeed headed towards mastery, this mastery is what allows the Yonkou to be “impenetrable”, that the current Yonkou are each masters of different or multiple types, and mastering all types is what will set Luffy apart as the Pirate King.

    1. Shanks - Observation. To be quite honest, what I know about Shanks is mostly from the senior and skilled members/theorists here. I know that his Conquerors’s haki is off the charts, but at the same time he may possess an incredible observation haki that allows him to see really far into the future, or that may even allow him to freeze time for an instant. He’s always cool and calm which are the prerequisites for observation haki as explained to us by Rayleigh, Enel, Katakuri, and Luffy himself. So, if I had to choose one besides Conquerors, this is definitely it. Also, I am aware that we have not seen him be impenetrable, but with the respect he gets from Kaido and Big Mom, there has to be a reason for it. Think about Katakuri, his observation didn’t make him impenetrable, just unhittable!! His will? Similar to Luffy’s is what I would guess. Freedom and the protection of his friends.
    2. Big Mom - Conquerors. For Big Mom, this is a power that seems to have manifested naturally as a child. A child prodigy, if you will. Her will for sweets was indomitable as there was literally nothing that could get in her way when she set her mind to getting what she desired. How does this allow her to be impenetrable? Ever heard of Mind over Matter? Unbreakable Spirit? Or, having an Iron Will? The power of the mind is something that all of us as humans are really starting to understand more and more as time goes on. It is said, that nothing can stop the person that knows what it is they want from life and that are willing to do whatever it takes to accomplish it. You manifest your thoughts into reality if you have the patience, determination, and persistence! This is Big Mom personified. Think about how Bege and Sanji described her after meeting her. An impenetrable IRON ball… Tempering your will. Tempering is what they do to steel and iron? She has a temper. Opposite of Shanks. Think about this, the only time she was injured was when her mindset was broken due to the photo of her mom being dropped! What about the significance of her two wills? Well, when the photo was broken at the tea party, her mentality was broken right? So, why didn't the rocket penetrate? Her other will was activated, the wedding cake was destroyed, her dreams of the Germa army becoming hers and creating a place for all races were all jeopardized and her conqueror’s haki kicked in and protected her. IMG_8792.jpg IMG_8794.jpg IMG_8797.jpg IMG_8798.jpg IMG_8800.jpg IMG_8802.jpg IMG_8803.jpg
    3. Kaido - Armament along with Conqueror’s. The man that can’t be killed. The immortal. Guillotines break on his neck, and spears on his stomach… But, look closely! Maybe, just maybe this is even being activated subconsciously! Another form of unconscious competence! Something that even he can’t control. Maybe even unknown to him as he can not deactivate it to allow himself to die. As we know, all forms of haki are WILL, so Kaido’s armament won’t allow him to die until he accomplishes or fulfills his dream of total destruction on a massive scale… The Drunken master. Will learn more about this guy as the story progresses. But, no doubt in my mind that it will align. Screen Shot 2018-12-11 at 3.46.43 PM.png
    4. Blackbeard - Unknown but definitely not armament… Why not armament? Because he continues to feel pain. And, actually, I believe that he is just a mastermind… Maybe a dark manifestation of Observation and Conqueror’s haki. The way he plots and plans and tries to sneak around actually doing the hard work makes me think that he’s lacking mastery necessary to be king. Very intelligently and meticulously adding the strongest crew members and has the bravado to convince them to join him. Totally different from how Luffy built his. Killing intent vs looking for good hearted people. Power hungry versus Freedom seeking. Now, if he did have only one, I would have to say he is probably closer to Conquerors even though this would contradict the fact that Big Mom is impenetrable. Unless of course, it comes down to different manifestations again… He has the top offensive and top defensive devil fruits to go along with a sharp mind which allow him to remain on top and able to compete with the Yonko, even if he really is lacking mastery. As I mentioned, you can still be extremely proficient and skilled and not be a complete master. Maybe that is what White Beard saw in, or “NOT” in him as in what he was lacking when he assessed him at Marine ford. IMG_8805.jpg
    5. Now, as we have seen with Luffy, he is beginning to be able to use his conqueror’s unconsciously, also he is mastering observation with his ability to see the future. Luffy mastering all will be what separates him as the King. Just like with his fight with Katakuri, Luffy will have to face and takedown each of the Yonkou and during their fights, he will have to match or surpass them during battle. What was really surprising to me was the way and level of ease Kaido was able to defeat Luffy. I mean, since the beginning of the story, Luffy was known to have monstrous strength, but after each battle he barely survived, he got pushed even harder with physically stronger opponents. Then, he faces a guy that is propped up as THE PINNACLE of undefeated excellence. I figure that the Yonkou must have clashed at one point in time, so being undefeated is nearing the peak of strength automatically. However, the strong always face the strong, so Katakuri never faced a Yonkou. This left us questioning just how much of a difference in strength between a Yonkou and second in command could there be, if any? Well, this was definitively answered with Kaido’s one shot KO of Luffy. Unlike with Zoro, we never see Luffy physically training. But, after training with Rayleigh, he was able to use armament and be still be somewhat powerful in the sea. The very same sea that used to weaken him completely. Now, he literally has sea prism cuffs and is tasked with lifting heavy stones while doing all out sprints… After this, the natural phenom will without a doubt be a WHOLE LOT stronger. And, at this level of what’s upcoming, it’s the phyiscal armament that and power that will be mastered and necessary to defeat Kaido. UPDATE: with this latest manga chapter released, it is becoming more and more clear that Luffy's physical appearance is beginning to change. It is like Doffy said. "you sure are fast, but are lacking heaviness!"
    Lets discuss!
     

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  2. Mo3MaR

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    #2 Mo3MaR, Dec 29, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2018
    Wow we got the same impression on Kaidou's immortality, but you step up the ladder of explanation good job.. Why Kaidou couldn't manage to die while WB done it? Like their will does , Wb manage to secure the two seeds he wants to go to new era so his will has a limit.. ​

    In terms of Armament I think Zoro is more stronger than his captain .. As you could see clading your whole body in Haki doesn't mean you are a master..Like Pica vs Zoro, Zoro stated the same statement Mihawk told him.. Doesn't mean you are confident you are stronger than anyone.. Its all about mastering your body at will and strengthening them..

    Hey hey don't forget Admiral Aokiji at your top tier Observation Haki.. Dodging the weapon of WB closely and still got unscathed isn't as small fit like Katakuri doing that just dodging in time...You know letting yourself get stabbed by Haki imbueded weapon of WB voluntarily to get close to him and froze him
     
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  3. KKG

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    Luffy is most on the domain of the unconcious.
    He goes and that's it.
    He allways believes he can do something effectivelly until some miracle happen,but he isn't counting on it.
    He spams attacks to his enemies and thinks they work.
    He doesn't have a conscience of his level even after 2 years of trainning,not even when he is facing a top monster.
    The only conscious moment he had was when he used haoshoku haki on Fisherman's Island.
    I can't see him evolving even if the anime can last more 10 years.
    He can be PK and never get to Yonko level.
    Zoro was definetely the one who grew up most between all the SHs.
    His is very well trainned and he uses his skills around perfection,in the end he will be better than Mihawk for sure.
     
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  4. ckimbrew

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    #4 ckimbrew, Dec 29, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
    Why was Whitebeard able to die? He said it himself... He couldn’t remain the strongest forever and everyone has their own time of life. But, even as an old man, to survive attacks from 3 admirals thousands of shots, thousands of stabs, and even canon fire... Plus, Kaido being surprised that he could die, makes one believe that he too was once impregnatable as well.

    Zoro and Luffy... sigh... I go back and forth every hour as to who is my favorite. Lol! But, I’m not sure why you mentioned him here. As far as his haki, I definitely believe it to be strong. And, as a swordsman, I definitely believe him to be among the strongest! We have seen some and time again how a haki clad blade can cut haki clad skin. Makes sense to me because a regular sword can easily cut regular skin... In fact, I believe this is how Hawkeye can walk/sail around in the New World all alone. His swordsmanship is mastered. His armament haki is mastered. And maybe even his observation. I believe the last one is why Zoro is keeping his eye closed. Maybe Mihawk is training trying to have Zoro increase his observation. Anyway, back to your point, I’m not so sure that his haki is stronger than Luffy’s. Katakuri was clearly on a whole new level, so we thought we got to see what a very strong Yonkou’s second in command looks like and maybe thought he’d be close to BM in strength... which made us all probably assume how close Zoro was to Luffy... then, Kaido! Lol

    Aokiji, I didn’t forget him. Just wanted to focus on the Yonkou because we know more about them and they’re pirates like Luffy, so they’re the better for comparison.
     
  5. ckimbrew

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    I agree with Luffy’s fighting skill being at an incredibly high level maybe even mastered, which would explain his unconscious fighting style. Ever since he was a kid, his grandpa had him out in the wilderness surviving and fighting animals. Then, he sparred with Ace and Sabo daily after that. Hours and hours of repetition.

    However, I completely disagree that his only conscious moment was on fishman island... I literally showed several examples of him using just the conquerors haki cousciously. There are tons of him consciously activating his observation and armament as well. Even as recently as learning how to use the observation versus Katakuri.

    I also don’t see why you say he’d never reach Yonko level... or even going to use specific events to prove. All that’s needed here is the fact that he’s the main character in the anime lol!!

    Lastly, I do somewhat agree with Zoro’s maturity level. Especially when compared to Luffy. Like when Zoro has to check Luffy while on Punk Hazard...

    But, if you think about this, from the start, Zoro was determined to be a master swordsman. So, you can’t addord to skip, be off or immature... one mistake even in a low level battle of swords and you could lose a limb or your life instantly. Now, compare that to Luffy’s upbringing. He was rubber longer than he was regular. So, he could be more aloof and take more risks as his body could sustain a higher amount of damage. Think back to Zoro taking a taste of Luffy’s absorbed punishment on Moria’s ship... Zoro was never used to taking that much damage. It put him out of commission for a very long time... It was definitely his MIND’s strength and resolve that kept him alive. Something he’s been strengthening since a kid and completely tied to his will of wanting to be the strongest swordsman. Luffy facing more and more opponents that can easily damage him is forcing him to grow in ways he never dreamed of and he’s definitely learning quickly.

    As far as being the one that has grown up the most, I’d have to say it’s Chopper... He’s gone from being afraid of humans and not confident in his strength and abilities, to stepping into and stopping two attacks from one of the very strongest people in the world.
     
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  6. KKG

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    He had a great strenght since day one on the anime,i agree with that,a rubber guy shouldn't do all that damage...
    But he will never reach Yonko level because for that he would have to beat Yonko after Yonko with his own power.
    *Shanks is his friend so he doesn't need to do it*
    On this anime he has enemies that can kill him if he can't KO them first.
    Will Oda keep using plot armor on him?
    When he just want to KO his enemies he must be strong enough to kill them so he can hold himself at that point.
    His enemies can't kill him because he has plot armor and he can't beat them by himself because his power is never enough.
    He beat Mingo because Law weakened him.
    He beat Cracker because Nami protected him.
    With Katakuri he took a beating and i wouldn't call it a victory.
    He was tossed out like a ragdoll by Big Mom.
    I thought he would defeat Big Mom in a fight at Whole Cake Island but he ran away.
    He said before "I will beat all Yonkos".
    I still don't know how he can be at Yonko level if he can't overpower the Yonkos.
    It doesn't make sense if he beats Kaido after run from Big Mom,there is no way Kaido can be weaker than her.
    And before he get to Wano he will have to get rid of the calamities.
    Yonkos are more powerfull than the Admirals,even if he get to Yonko level at the end it will be after the expected final fight against the Navy and WG and at that time it will be useless because he won't have to fight anymore.
    Will he show that type of power in a fight?
    It would make him Saitama wich is exactly what Oda doesn't want.
    What do you think,@ckimbrew?
     
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  7. ckimbrew

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    I see what you’re saying, even if only a little. @KKG

    But, as I explained, that’s why I think he’s going through this “training” session in prison.

    Sea prism hand cuffs, and having to carry enormous blocks all day. Once the cuffs are off, his strength will probably increase ten-fold or more.

    After the life or death battle against Katakuri, he was noticing bulkier entering Wano. Now, he’s even bigger after this “workout”.

    I think it’s similar to Zoro’s eye and Kenpachi’s (from Bleach) eye patch.

    Like a limiter on strength.
     
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  8. Seiryu

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    I will note that I only got to quickly browse through, but I 100% agree on the rationale behind the tiers of power levels Oda has been implying for years (as well as the learning process Luffy goes through instinctually, until Rayleigh comes in for the haki aspect). The best thing about combat is that the strategy lets people maximize their areas of strength and minimize their weaknesses through thorough strategy.

    Luffy is slowly getting more and more well rounded (slowly getting close to maxing out his stats for the major categories like speed, physical strength, destructive power, elusiveness, combat experience, haki, etc.). The problem is that there are even sub-levels of mastery. I don't see it referenced, but haki mastery is the most likely explanation for how Rayleigh magically removes Keimi's explosive collar. Luffy being able to combine this level of haki mastery with his awakening is how he will take on Shanks/Blackbeard/the ENTIRE Government.
     
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  9. ckimbrew

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    I like that aspect of battle! Until you come face to face with someone that has strengths far surpassing your own. In those instances, strategy just doesn’t work. But, as you mentioned, that’s where growth and rational thinking comes in to play.

    And, AWAKENING or devil fruit mastery. That’s definitely another category of mastery that I think belongs to Blackbeard. More so than focusing, or being shown to focus on haki, he’s done extensive and meticulous research on devil fruits and is even attempting to master two!

    And, although I thought the same about Rayleigh’s collar trick, I had no explanation for it at all. Like you said, there could be subsets. Like how some can see the future but luffy’s Is more towards feeling people’s true intentions/feelings. Do you think the power to hear “the voice of all things” is genetic or haki based? Because we know this “weird power” as called by big mom is possessed by Roger, Luffy, and Pudding Chan. (Maybe momo but then again maybe that’s just with him and Zuneshia.) What do you think about that?
     
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  10. Seiryu

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    Contextually, the "voice of all things" used to be an Ancient Kingdom/D. related recessive trait. Momonosuke having it does throw that pattern off a little bit. Japanese culture has a strong tie between animal lovers/animals being able to sense the "good" in people. So I would assume that plays a part in it since the ability to communicate and potentially control excessively giant animals is still a huge power boost. My bias is that even with Momo, it still is likely tied to "ancient bloodlines". Just as haoshoku is a rare trait, the voice of all things is an even rarer trait that requires ties to a bloodline from the Void Century or later.

    Pudding has a completely different power. Oda introduced the 3rd eye clan as the only (current) alternative to Robin. It makes sense that one if not more alternatives exist since if not everyone should be going after Robin from before 3D2Y.
     
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