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The Mysterious Prisoner is a foe

Discussion in 'One Piece Theories' started by Admiral Ryokugyu, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Admiral Ryokugyu

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    #1 Admiral Ryokugyu, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    Hi

    In Chapter 924 i think we've been smartly mislead by Oda. Now look at this:

    12.png

    The guards don't know who's inside that cell. In fact, they're not even sure if somebody's there, which means that the Mysterious Prisoner has been imprisoned there for a very long time, before those guards started working there.

    Luffy was walking towards his cell, and this happened:

    mys.png

    Ever since the chapter came out, my understanding of this page was different from what the majority of the readers believed.

    People say that the guard was about to hit Luffy and the mysterious prisoner saved him. I see otherwise.

    Luffy was walking towards his cell, he suddenly glared at something in the right. He did NOT glare at the guard, but at the mysterious cell. He sensed something about it. Probably a big threat, considering his shocked stare.

    The prisoner did not attack the guard. He attacked Luffy, but the guard was in the way so he got hit by accident.

    mys.png

    Look at Luffy in the panel above. The mysterious cell is on his right hand side.

    The guard is standing right between Luffy and the prisoner. Oda even gave us another camera angle to make things clear:


    fgg.png

    Look at this panel above, imagine Luffy's position right before the guard was hit. He was forming a line along with the guard and the prisoner. That's why the guard got hit instead of Luffy.

    Oda never wastes a panel. In all of the +900 chapters, i've never seen a panel dedicated for Luffy glaring like that at an ordinary guard, it makes no sense.

    Still not convinced, alright read this panel carefully:

    13.png

    People think that Luffy glared at the guard because he threatened him. But wait a minute. The guard says: " the way you're looking at me ... " , which means Luffy was glaring at his right hand side even before the guard addressed him. Why, out of all the guards there, Luffy chooses to glare at the one who is standing right between him and the mysterious cell ? It can't be. Luffy was definitely staring at the mysterious prisoner, and the guard thought Luffy was looking at him because he was simply standing in front of him. Luffy also has a speech bubble in that panel, just like the prisoner's.

    Luffy might have seen the future using his Observation Haki and he felt the attack, but luckily for him, the guard was there and he got hit.

    Oda purposefully mislead us in that Chapter because he wanted us to think that the prisoner saved Luffy, that he's a future ally. Because if we think like that, then we conclude that the mysterious prisoner is NOT the Lurking Legend.

    " i'll introduce a legend that's been laying dormant in the One Piece world. The greatest enemy ever for Straw Hats will hinder their way. " - Eiichiro Oda


    I personally think that the mysterious prisoner is the lost captain of Kaido and Big Mom, mentioned by Hina in Chapter 907. His imprisonment has something to do with Big Mom and Kaido's past. They might have betrayed him using some tricks, and put him there.

    1- the Rocks captain disappeared a very long time ago, the prisoner was there for a very long time considering how not even the guards know about his existence.

    2- We know that his name or his group's name is Rocks. The mysterious prisoner is imprisoned in a rock mine. Coincidence ? ( Viz's translation is Rox, but it's simple translation, just like they put Ushimitsu Kozo instead of the Witching Hour Boy. Jaimini's translation was Rocks, MangaStream's was Locks )

    3- Luffy sensed a major threat, considering his glare and the panel dedicated to it. So the prisoner is definitely strong.

    4- The prisoner is definitely not Kawamatsu, and not Denjiro. Why ? Because if he was one of them then Kaido would either kill him or try to break his will, just like he's doing to Luffy and Kid. The second option is impossible, because he's ordering them to feed him poisonous fish unlike the other prisoners who are being fed mochi, thus he's trying to kill him. Why would he try to kill him if he wants him to join his crew ?

    Which means that Kaido wants him dead at any cost, but he can't kill him in person. Kaido wants to stay away from him. The only solution is to give him a poisonous fish per day in hope that he dies. But he still didn't die, tells a lot about his strength.

    Let me explain it very simply :

    We have Kaido, and we have a prisoner. Now if the prisoner is weaker than Kaido, then Kaido has 2 options: kill him or try to break his will just like he's doing to all the other prisoners. Surprisingly, Kaido is doing none of these 2 options. Instead, he's trying to kill him without having to face him. And you know what that means ? It means that the mysterious prisoner is stronger than Kaido.
     
  2. Kia

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    Thanks for sharing yet again. That logic could totally work. Just to help you build a stronger case and iron out your details though, Hina mention Rocks in chapter 907: upload_2019-2-12_15-54-21.png The phrasing of “lost their captain” implies that he died or was captured but it’s not explicitly stated as such. The question is, what role did Garp play in the subduing of the Rocks pirates if Big Mom and Kaido worked together to trap the captain? Did he just clean up the mess? Did he weaken him to the point where they were able to move forward with their plan? Is her favor unrelated to this at all? Hmm...
     
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  3. Dreamer

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    I wouldn't have thought it that way :openmouth:. I think that your theory may be possible.
     
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  4. Admiral Ryokugyu

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    maybe he did nothing. The Navy claimed that Garp made them disband, just like they claimed Smoker beat Crocodile and Coby saved the citizens in the Rocky Port incident ( this last one is still not confirmed ). I don't know, there are countless possible options.
     
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  5. Kia

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    Garp’s got a pretty big mouth on him as evinced by the way he talked trash to Stelly, blabbed about Dragon, and is regularly saying whatever to Sengoku so I find it hard to believe that he’d not have let it slip that he didn’t do anything if that were the case. Furthermore, he’s good at disobeying orders as well. On the other hand, perhaps the fact that it would cause such a ruckus is what’s kept him quiet. And perhaps it’s the very fact that there was mischief involved that caused that smirk to which they were referring when he mentioned the problems that would arise if they reclaimed their previous power levels. I know, I know possibilities abound.^_^
     
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  6. Juggy

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    Your theory looks promising. Luffy's glare indeed looks like he sensed a potential threat. I have a small issue about the theory, though.

    • Why would misterious prisoner want to kill Luffy? If he is imprisoned by Kaido, wouldn't be better for him to try to work his way out? Experienced as he is, I think he could easily recognize Luffy as a strong individual who could help him escape.
     
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  7. Kia

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    If he’s one of those guys who has to rule everything, he’d recognize right away that Luffy’s a threat and couldn’t be controlled. His Haoshoku Haki was at the level of activating when he was pretty much unconscious so it had to be able to be sensed by someone too powerful for Kaido to kill, especially as pissed off as he was at that point. There'd still be small traces of its existence emanating from him even though he wasn’t actively using it, I’d think.
     
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  8. Juggy

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    Yeap, it could be. My pressumption was that he would be rational - deal with common enemy, take care of the future threat after. But how could someone be rational after years in prison.
     
  9. Admiral Ryokugyu

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    for absolutely no reason. The guards were ordered to take out the fish's bones before giving it to the prisoner, which means it's not the first time he kills someone that way. He's just sitting inside his cell and a random dude is chained and walking towards his cell, why not shoot him dead ? He has nothing else to do. He's been inside that cell for a very long time, so he probably doesn't care anymore about escaping.

    His escape will probably be due to the destruction of the prison, Luffy and Kid will do something to free everybody ( i can't imagine Luffy escaping and letting those poor people suffering there ), and then the mysterious prisoner will find a way out.
     
  10. Chicano180

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    Don't leave out the part where Garp mentions ".....if they were to make a comeback..." also suggesting that they are not dead.
    I like just about everything you said and believe it's all very plausible.
    The only thing I disagree is with the prisoner aiming for Luffy.
    - I am also of the belief that Luffy was staring at the prisoner and not the guards
    - However, since we both agree that the prisoner is an extraordinary character then there's no chance or a very small chance that he was aiming for Luffy and missed the target over a slow moving guard. Even at a weakened state there's no reason for him to miss a target. I personally think he's just showing off and/or just wanted to kill a guard to kill time.
     
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  11. Kia

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    I did refer to it in my second post when I was positing reasons as to Garp’s behaviour if he were actually falsely credited with the downfall of the group. Unless you mean to say that the rest of the group isn’t dead but scattered to the winds somewhere or a part of other crews? I took that to mean the remaining members getting back together, joining forces (with or without the captain as that remains to be seen) and wreaking havoc. ^_^

    As for the prisoner missing, just like he should be able to aim while weakened, Luffy should be able to foresee enough to be in proper position to avoid it. Even before fighting Katakuri, he could’ve dodged a great many things quite easily so tis not unheard of that he’d have used the guard as a shield as I see it. ^_^
     
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  12. Admiral Ryokugyu

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    @Kia @Chicano180 Garp's smirk when he said that they may come back makes me feel like he knows something about them that the Navy doesn't. It's like everybody in the WG thinks that their captain is dead, but only Garp knows the truth ( that the captain is still alive ). It could even be the reason why he refused to be promoted to Admiral position.

    Oda said that he has a " magnificent story about Garp " in store, so i'm expecting anything.
     
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  13. Kia

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    Oh sure, Garp is good for gaining the confidence of his foes—becoming frenemies, if you will. So there’s no telling what happened and what he knows. He was just a young buck back then, too. You tend to be more malleable. It’s entirely possible that something happened which gave Roger that certainty he had to trust him with Rouge and Ace’s lives—something more than just the time they’d spent together. Roger could hear the voice of all things so who knows what he’d heard that wasn’t meant to be heard during his earliest travels and/or his interactions with Garp. It (hearing the VOAT) could be linked to Luffy’s kenbunshoku ability to sense emotions. I’m not entirely sure that the two aren’t tied together as Luffy has always been highly intuitive. Anyways, the point is that I’d believe it. ^_^
     
  14. Seiryu

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    I can agree with everything except for this part. If Kaidou can successfully escape 19+ times, why wouldn't someone stronger than him be able to do so? Even with the full weakening of kairouseki, that cell does not have the reinforcement necessary to hold someone of Kaidou's level of strength. Hell, even Luffy's Gear Fourth level of strength: the indirect impact of Doffy destroyed a big chunk of Dressrosa.

    Yes, it is possible that this true monster was transferred there after being completely starved, but that's just illogical to me even with that taken into consideration. I'll reference the minimalistic effect of aging. If One Piece characters can overcome father time, they can overcome starvation (enough to break the stone/rock/however big the back part of the cell is).

    I 100% agree on the attacking Luffy part. Not taking into account the Pleasure just walking is a sign of lower combat capabilities too though. Since it probably isn't happening (i.e. Luffy gets his awakening in some other way based on Oda's comments), I'm willing to bet the "lurking legend" was Lucci (I might have to expand on what the original Wano Kuni plan was). So I'm curious to see how Oda handles the introduction of the legend, or if he just skips it completely with all the recent changes to the Wano Kuni arc.
     
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  15. Kia

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    Do we know for sure that we’ve seen kairoseiki at its strongest concentration? Wano is home to those who can work this material so it can be fashioned in ways that are heretofore unknown to us. Do we know that the entire cell itself isn’t made out of kairoseiki? Crocodile used it, why wouldn’t Kaido? I’m a possibilities kind of person and these have potential to me. ^_^

    I’m not saying that your views aren’t valid but the presumption is that he was greatly weakened in order to be captured in the first place and then appropriate precautions were taken to hold onto him. For Kaido’s captures/escapes (which is 18+ btw), we don’t know when/how they occurred other than that he never made it to Impel Down and it wasn’t just the Navy but other pirates as well, as only Shiki and Luffy’s group have succeeded in escaping from there, unless I’ve missed something huge.
     
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  16. Chicano180

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    Completely agree with you Kia.

    Luffy/Kid have a "small" quantity of kairoseki that allows them to move around. That doesn't mean that this other guy possibly stronger than Kaido has the same type of type of shackles, he can very well have an extreme concentration/dense amount of kairoseki that doesn't allow him to do what Luffy/Kid does.

    Also agree with your the capturing of Kaido. There are many things that are still very mysterious about his body, his power, and all his captures/escapes to be able to rule out a stronger character.....or at a minimum a character that Kaido can't kill....which again too many unknowns to rule out.....I like your thinking.
     
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  17. Seiryu

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    We've seen it at its "normal" concentration and the recently explained "partial concentration". This still goes back to the level of >Kaidou. Any fruit user can still do short bursts of max effort exertion. Yes, the entire cell (including the ground) being kairouseki would be a valid point, but the fact that the iron bars connect to the rock/mountain indicate otherwise. If not, that junction/joint is the weak spot that someone with elite of the elite level physical capabilities can break even if bound (breaking rocks/boulders is definitely something East Blue level).

    Ah thanks, typo on my side. Prior to the expansion of King/Queen, it didn't make sense on how Kaidou escaped (Jack is too weak so Kaidou had to do it on his own essentially). The contradiction is that King/Queen's presence now makes it so that Kaidou almost has to be wandering alone for all of those 18+ instances (some could have been Whitebeard, but we don't know how fast the disease sapped his combat capabilities). So actually, that's kind of my point: if someone is that strong, kairouseki is mitigated quite a bit. Because they are tiers and tiers above most people in the world, they are still strong enough even in the weakened state.
     
  18. Admiral Ryokugyu

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    we learnt in today's chapter that Big Mom is going to Udon to save Luffy. Now that might be the reason why Oda gave her amnesia, because that's a golden opportunity to introduce the Rocks captain.

    We have a Rocks member going to a place where the Rocks captain top candidate is imprisoned. I don't think that's a coincidence, Oda is surely building up towards it. He might have given Big Mom amnesia just for the sake of introducing this new major villain.

    One Piece has 2 big phases: pre-Pirate King phase, and post-Pirate King phase. The final villain of the post-Pirate King phase will most likely be Imu and his World Government ( as Whitebeard foreshadowed ), but we still need a major villain for the current pre-Pirate King phase, and i don't think it's Blackbeard. Oda needs a big villain who is above the Yonko.

    Blackbeard is one of the 4 Emperors, so in my opinion he's not the final villain of the current phase. And that's why Oda was talking about a lurking legend. Just like the WG has a guy at the top of it who's the real deal, the Yonko system has a bad guy who's the real deal as well, which is the Rocks captain. ( look at the parallelism, we always thought that the Gorosei are at the top of the WG, but we recently found out that there's Imu. In the same way, we've always thought that the Yonko are at the top of the pirate system, but we recently found out that 2 of them were members of a crew and had a captain who's now lost )
     
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  19. Kia

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    97D9BEE7-EDAD-4699-97E0-E164B35D88BB.png
    I’m saying that even the bars and those stones around them are kairoseiki. Crocodile had kairoseiki bars so that’s obviously a thing. I get that junctures are weak points but if it’s built of kairoseiki (especially refined or concentrated stuff, if that’s a thing) it’s less so than normal materials. I find it hard to believe that there’s not a way to refine or anondize it or something (sorry I don’t do metalwork) to increase its efficacy.

    As for Kaido’s escapes, he could’ve been captured while passed out drunk, maybe he woke up in the midst of being secured, or wasn’t secured well enough. Any of the rationales that you’re giving for the mysterious prisoner could work for Kaido. After all, he’s got Haoshoku Haki, his dragon powers and his crazy strength plus he can fly. So, what if one of the captures was Big Mom for breeding purposes? And the favor was letting him keep some of the kids? Just saying, it could’ve happened. Instead of a love story, it’d fit with her MO. But I digress, I meant to mention that in the other thread but it sort of matched this conversation. ^_^
     
  20. Johannes

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    Plot Twist: It could be Kozuki Oden (I still believe that he is still alive, not very convincing how Orochi and Kinemon told his demise! It could be that ther'ye breaking his will so that Oden would tell the location of Raftel (It really would make NO sense to kill a valuable person that knows that information). Oden also fits "The Lurking Legend" as he was a member of the Legendary Roger Pirates. Anyways that's my take on this theory .
     

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