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The Truth Behind Devil Fruits and SMILEs and The Reason Why Blackbeard Can Use Two Abilities.

Discussion in 'One Piece Theories' started by Yuuzume, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. Yuuzume

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    The reason I'm having trouble believing it is cause said implication seems like a different person from the one I've seen so far.The only trait that may be worth mentioning is Teach's strength which he showcased against Ace and WB.But we can safely attribute the fact that he even landed them on the darkness fruit's gravitational pull abilities.So it's hard to think that Teach could even land a hit on Shanks while being ability-less,much less wound him.

    His cunningness and strategic ingenuity are certainly the qualities that should be mentioned when talking about Teach.The problem with him is that he's a coward who tried to look like a strong person by getting raw power.That skin would probably tear off really quickly under pressure.

    Thanks for taking the time to read this and give your opinion on it man,I appreciate it.
     
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  2. Seiryu

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    I take the Ace vs. Blackbeard fight with a grain of salt. It should be at a much higher level for sure. They both have haki (and probably both kenbunshoku/haoshoku), but the anime does nothing to reflect this. Just like any shounen manga fight, Blackbeard is probably fighting down to the level of his opponent. They are shown to be fighting at the level of top people at the time, but they are both at a completely different level (Blackbeard was already in a different tier).

    I definitely agree on the "weakness" of Blackbeard in the second part, but my interpretation is that he is just lazy and wants to avoid potential obstacles to his plan (vs. Luffy always taking any obstacle head on). It is probably safe to assume Blackbeard only makes his move once the ability hunt and execution of the plan is complete, so this weakness does not come into play.
     
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  3. Kia

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    So I’m confused on two points please.

    1.Where/how does it ever show BB having Haki?

    In your earlier post you said Shanks was being carefree and Blackbeard landed a Haki attack on him because he was strong enough to do so and Shanks wasn’t expecting a serious fight.
    upload_2018-9-13_20-33-18.jpeg
    But here he says he wasn’t being careless which is a synonym (the top one https://www.powerthesaurus.org/carefree) for carefree. I’m sure you read the original and know what it really said.

    2. Are you suggesting that the hiding in the shadow of Whitebeard means hiding his true power/strength? That he basically did like women have had to do for years to stroke men’s egos? Played down their abilities in order to make themselves seem less than what they are. Because, as I’ve stated previously, I always took him literally speaking of a past sneak attack to figuratively warn of future plans to try and make a power play.
     
  4. Seiryu

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    Context 100% implies it, even at the time of the fight with Ace. To would Shanks, Blackbeard HAS to have very strong offensive busoushoku. Shanks' defensive busoushoku should be more than enough to ward off blades from most people in the world.

    Shanks' character as a whole is completely carefree (which rubbed off on Luffy/why they liked each other). By definition, he could not have been 100% on guard because he did not expect Blackbeard to be on his level. The only case of not having this aspect of human nature is Miyamoto Musashi and him never taking a bath later in life. Just like pretty much all manga fights, Shanks is fighting down to Blackbeard's level, but when Blackbeard starts fighting at a Yonkou level, he is able to land the wound.

    As for the last part, no. His true strength is his final form in 4-5 years. I would say that his planning is his most underrated character strength. The biggest thing is that Blackbeard has steadily built up as the ultimate baddie. Oda is going to have him be the ultimate nemesis/anti-Luffy, so he's naturally got lots of strengths (the above parts on being physically at a Yonkou level even without the Yami abilities). We have a very extensive outline for how little airtime he has gotten, but the key details are completely wide open with Oda purposefully leaving two main options open (keeping the abilities for himself, or being able to transfer them to others).
     
  5. Kia

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    Hence the contention that he was otherwise engaged in fighting Whitebeard and didn’t notice him. If he didn’t notice him, he couldn’t/wouldn’t have guarded against the wound.
    No defensive Haki means no offensive needed. Only Vergo haki’s His whole body when fighting.

    I meant true strength at that time not pentultimate of the series. As in he wasn’t showing all his cards. Which you’ve basically affirmed in your answer to the previous, if I understand correctly by saying he wasn’t expected to be on the same level as Shanks in the scenario you painted.

    Oh he’s a cunning bastard, no doubt, almost Machiavellian. I’m simply trying to ascertain the basis for the other parts to clarify my understanding as my interpretation is different.
     
  6. Yuuzume

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    There are three types of abilities in the One Piece world when one considers the fighting prowess of a character: Haki,Devil fruit abilities and skills (Either tribal skills lke the minks or simple fighting skills like swordsmanship).Right now we're talking about the scenario of a fruitless Teach,so let's take out the raw power of his devil fruits out of the equation.Let's consider any skills that he has shown to have...just punches after he pulled his opponent in using the power of his devil fruit.He was shown to have used a weapon similar to Wolverine's claws but there hasn't been an indication that he can use it efficiently.One might say that him wounding Shanks with it is an indication that he can use it properly,but we still don't know the circumstances of how Shank's received his wound.Even if I was overly generous of my evauation of Teach's skill in using that weapon,I would say he was barely decent at it,justified that he was one of WB's crew and a new world pirate with certain years of experience under his belt.As far as skill goes,Shanks is a powerhouse that used to duel with Hawkeye as casually as normal people in the One Piece world go to have lunch.And even after all those duels with Hawk Eye,the greatest swordsman in the One Piece world,Shanks has not been wounded deep enough for him to be scarred (as far as we've seen).And yet he received such a wound from Teach,and that was even before he ate any devil fruit.If we accept that Teach was simply strong enough to wound Shanks so badly at that stage,that would mean that he's a stronger fighter than Hawk Eye,something which I frankly don't think is plausible for the most part.So Shank's scar must have involved several other factors that are irrelevant to Teach's fighting ability.

    Now let's consider the last ability,haki.First there is Busoshoku,I haven't seen an indication that Teach's busoshoku is overly strong but I agree that he can use it to an extend.Then we have Haoshoku,I don't like the idea of Teach possesing Haoshoku but it actually wouldn't surprise me.Still,having haoshoku would only help him avoid having to fight peopel with quite weaker haki than himself,not help him fight against opponents who are close to him as far as haki levels go.And finally we have Kenbunshoku,a type of haki that Teach has shown no indication of having.I won't give you an example from his fight with Ace because haki hadn't really been introduced clearly by that point (though we had seen the use of Mantra on Skypeia,which is Kenbunshoku).Instead,let me give you examples from his fights during and after the Impel Down arc,which is after Sandersonia and Marigold had been shown to use haki at Amazon Lily and Reyleigh and Sentonmaru had been shown to use haki at Sabaody.

    1) Fight with Luffy:
    p_00005.jpg
    p_00006.jpg

    2) "Fight" with Magellan:
    p_00018.jpg
    p_00019.jpg

    3) Fight with Whitebeard:
    p_00008.jpg

    4) Fight with Sengoku:
    p_000062.jpg

    Not to be harsh on him,but what I would have considered as a sigh of Kenbunshoku,or at least stronger Busoshoku,is him not falling on the floor after one attack from all of those opponents.

    In the end,for me,if you take the devil fruit abilities away from Teach,you're left with a New World pirat with average skill,barely decent haki,and above average strength.

    His plan to avoid obstacles who are skilled at using their power is getting even more raw power himself.But no matter how many obstacles he avoids,there should still be the ones he can't avoid,the ones who have enormous raw power and know how to use it,one such example being Shanks.


    Pica has been shown to be able to coat himself completely in busoshoku haki as well.Though I agree with you on the fact that factors which indicate unfair play were involved in Teach's fight with Shanks.Shank's statement makes it seem like it was a normal fight by he could also mean that Teach was simply cunning enough to catch him by surprise despite him having his guard up.
     
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  7. Seiryu

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    I'm confused on where Whitebeard has to do with the Shans/Blackbeard clash. Ace is the perfect example that people are given freedom to just do their own thing since the name of Whitebeard itself was protection from the Government/Marines. Based on the conversation, Blackbeard decided to test his capabilities against Shanks (probably a chance encounter). The rest of the Red Hair crew wasn't there as well since they wouldn't let Blackbeard escape freely (they would let the fight go on though).
    This ultimately comes down to the aspects previously discussed. Teach is being implied to be at a Yonkou level physically from way back then (he and others have stated he was purposefully hiding anything close to his real power simply for the chance to get the Yami Yami no Mi). Fighters at this level are not affected by the benefits of most fruit abilities (this trend is starting to be bumped by powerhouse abilities being introduced recently. However, Oda still has demonstrated endurance based limitations to logia/awakenings, so there are still limitations to the overpowered abilities). Shanks himself is the perfect example of how haki mastery negates any and all benefits from almost all fruit abilities.

    Shanks' pride is why he has the comment on taking the fight seriously. However, it is probably safe to assume the wound was delivered prior to Shanks warming up and being at 100% exertion. Again, his personality further extends the time it would take to get series. That time alone is more than enough to land the strike (we are at the DBZ stage of the series where everything is just illogically past what is humanly possible). Once Blackbeard lands the strike, he has his confirmation that he has the physical capabilities (and haki, but they are tied by direct correlation). Shanks is probably ready to go all out at this point, but Blackbeard reverts to his displayed personality of avoiding conflict.

    It actually makes sense from a strategic standpoint. For how grand his plan is, it is assuming he has Yonkou level fighting capabilities. Even with the best fruit ability, he still needs to be in the elite of the elite tier to even have a chance of succeeding. Shanks is the only Yonkou with minimal connections and most likely to be alone in an open area at times. So not only does it fit the plot's completion, in typical Oda fashion, the character personality and their development perfectly matches as well.

    As for the fight examples, I think Oda is showing us key details on the details of Blackbeard's "strange body". He talks about it himself during the Ace fight, but he has to tank ALL damage. Whether it is part of his unique body or a new benefit from the Yami abilities, he essentially immediately heals in all cases (which is my bias of how the entire crew escaped Magellan's poisoning). Oda had to keep a loophole for Blackbeard's defeat, and this is that loophole. Probably similar to Kaidou/Jack, one massive combination has to be stringed together to KO them. Their durability makes them invincible otherwise (Jack at a much lower level and Blackbeard somewhere inbetween probably). The Blackbeard fight will be more exciting because the Yami abilities make it exponentially harder to create that opening (plus Luffy won't have the benefit of help in that fight).

    Essentially it is plot armor, but fighters will fight down to their opponents level for the sake of the story progressing. I would argue that is the case for all of the referenced instances. Blackbeard should be able to 1 hit KO all of them (yes even the weakened Whitebeard), but that completely throws off the plot. I've seen Blackbeard an overlooked character for years. Oda is just properly distracting from the truth. He was much more subtle with his deception based writings back then, and these are all examples. Blackbeard is going to be the biggest rival (and potentially even the final fight after overthrowing the Government, but I would bet against this). Oda's masterfully kept our interest in other characters despite slowly building Blackbeard up over 15ish years.

    Edit: literary perfection. I'm surprised I'm the only one to describe Oda's story development. Even with people like us, the truth is undeniable and has been foreshadowed multiple times in the past.
     
  8. Yuuzume

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    Assuming that Shanks needs a bit of time to warm up and come to take a fight seriously,that must have been the case for every fight he's been in since it's part of his personality,including his fights with Hawk Eye.And yet,despite that,Hawk Eye hasn't managed to wound Shanks as badly as Teach has.That still hints that Teach was stronger,or at lest as strong as,than Hawk Eye,the world's greatest swordsman.Compared to characters like Shanks,who have been shown to be strong since the beginning,Teach has been introduced as a character that grows alongside Luffy for the reason you mentioned,to be a near-final opponent for him (there's still the WG for the final ones).But according to what you're suggesting,Teach was one step away from being a Yonko level pirate since even before he ate the darkness fruit.And then that person ate what he thinks of as the strongest devil fruit (Darkness fruit) and what the world thinks of as the strongest devil fruit (Quake fruit) turning himself into what would effectively be a combination of a Shanks level fighter,Whitebeard without health issues and the darkness fruit.And yet he run away from Shanks at Marinefold.I suppose one could say it was because of the Marines' presenc there or because his crew wasn't up to par with Shank's.Then why did he run away from Akainu when he was planning to exchange Jewelry Bonney with a warship.He should have been enough of a monster to beat Akainu to a pulp considering his assumed strength.So for the present,I haven't really seen a hint that suggests Teach is as strong as Shanks as far as skill and haki goes.The darkness fruit and Quake fruit are enough to put him in a position that's almost equal as the other Yonko.Now,I understand that you believe that Oda has been building up Teach over a long time span,but that only reinforces my belief that Teach is weak (if you exclude his devil fruits) right now.Instead of him been built up in one go into a monster,it would be better to follow a pace where Teach is just as strong as the other Yonko and then begins getting stronger as Luffy begins taking the other Yonko down and getting stronger himself.I won't say anything about Oda since I'd rather not use something outside of the story to make my point,this is the pace who I believe would be more proper for a manga that has spare time to develop a rival properly and the pace I believe the story is currently progressing in.However,my opinion of Teach remains the same,which is that even the potential future power ups will only include further raw power and that he will eventually hit a wall due to him depending on it too much.
     
  9. Kia

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    Sorry if I was unclear. I explained this in an earlier post. I do see the view that you’re taking and how it’s plausible. My contention and interpretation of Shanks’ statement (regarding Blackbeard hiding in Whitebeard’s shadow) that I had shown in that picture was that it was a literal reference to the his previous actions. As in Shanks and Whitebeard had been fighting, Blackbeard, in his cunning way, hid himself until just the right moment, then struck and wounded Shanks. So Shanks made reference to that as a metaphor for his future actions. That’s how I always read it. Hopefully that clears it up.

    It’s not to say that your interpretation is wrong but simply explaining mine.
     
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  10. Seiryu

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    As a martial artist, there is still a difference when you spar with someone. It can get heated with strong personalities, but in most cases, true 100% exertion is never achieved simply for safety purposes. This leeway should theoretically get exaggerated with the manga-level of fighting. They sparred with each other to maintain their skills. If they truly were fighting at max capacities, there would have been injuries. Aokiji loosing his leg over a split second of hesitancy/fatigue is probably the perfect example. The openings are so small at the apex. From a physiological perspective as well, there has to be a warm-up/build up as well so Oda milking the action does fit from a science standpoint as well (if not strategically as well).
    I would point out Sabo's training. The previous comments implies an immediate mastery of both the Yami Yami and Gura Gura abilities. I would assume Oda is building in additional "mastery" time for the Yami Yami abilities. This probably goes hand in hand with the ability hunt. Because he has not mastered either ability, this alone will create huge openings for any of the Red Hair crew to pounce on. He has every reason to flee at this point. In theory, he could completely revert to his non-ability fighting style but Oda has protected against this with his overly cautious/risk aversion personality. This part of his personality guarantees he will not make his move until the ability hunt (or whatever aspect is the last part of the master plan) is completed.

    The above applies to Akainu as well. In theory, the entire crew is more than enough to tackle Akainu (almost any two of them alone should be enough). Again, Oda is purposefully implying weakness when there is none. A big part of this is the plot. Having key characters defeated by someone other than Luffy kills excitement. Rationally, it should happen since there is constant turmoil and how prideful the apex characters are.

    I do not disagree with any part of your perspective, from my bias, Oda is just executing his plan perfectly. His perfect writing makes it so that we have way too many details for real surprises. We can rationally deduce all of the remaining major arcs. For the past 3-5ish years, Oda has had to depend solely on misdirection for his OMFG?!?! moments. The real climax against Kaidou, Luffy's true bloodline, and Blackbeard's true nemesis potential are all great examples. The "breadcrumbs" are all laid out and seen by everyone. Being able to fully connect all of them is the hardest part. Even for myself, it was discussions like this over the past 13ish years now that put some of the smaller puzzle pieces together. With so much detail, other people's perspectives are necessary.
    Ah I got ya now. I would respectfully disagree since this situation makes it almost impossible for Whitebeard to not know about the scar. With the level of kenbunshoku for both Whitebeard (who's in his prime at the time of the scar) and Shanks, they know the presence of the other with their eyes closed (they even know their status/emotions based on the examples of Rayleigh and Fujitora). Whitebeard had to be in a completely different area/part of the world when the Shanks vs. Blackbeard clash happened. Chances are, the rest of the Red Hair crew wasn't around as well since they should have similar kenbunshoku capabilties.
     
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  11. Kia

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    Again, I read it differently but I haven’t read the Japanese. I don’t see where it says Whitebeard didn’t know about the origin of the scar before. I saw it as a reference to or reminder of a past event, not a revelation of new information. As I’ve stated before in other threads, these things are open to interpretation and that’s why such discussions are fun.
     
  12. Seiryu

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    It isn't directly stated, but the conversation definitely implies so. The whole conversation is directly tied to the threat of Blackbeard. Once Shanks brings up the topic of Blackbeard, he almost immediately goes into the scar. Shanks doesn't have to talk about the scar if Whitebeard knows about it (the conversation would be more: you remember this scar?). Plus, if Whitebeard knows how Shanks got the scar, he wouldn't let Ace hunt him down alone.

    I do enjoy the discussions, but the hard part is that Oda's perfect writing kills over half of the discussions now. The puzzle pieces have been steadily drawn out for us, and the past 20 years has filled up most of the picture. Some key pieces are still missing, but I would say 90% of the foundation has been set. It does come down to petty details, but something is going to conflicted by a previous breadcrumb. The answers are very limited, but it will connect all relevant details. The only exception might be the war against Big Mom since Oda made illogical changes over his damn pride. There should be over a year to alter the new plot accordingly, but the successful poneglyph stealing is probably what kills the war hype the most.
     
  13. Kia

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    Perhaps, or perhaps it’s stated that way for emphasis but you know Japanese and its culture better than me. As I’ve said, I’m going on translations. And Whitebeard did ban Ace from going. He left without permission.

    I’ll grant that Oda is a planner but no one is perfect.
     
  14. Seiryu

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    That is true, but the scary thing is that his only real mistake is the WCI mess he created out of his damn pride. Literally everything else the past 21 years doesn't have any mistakes (excluding minor art/design mistakes). The concept of having a solid plan (the original 5 year manga) makes it rationally comprehensible, but being able to do it at such a masterful level for 20.5 years is super-human to me.

    Either way, we will get our answer faster than expected with Oda accelerating the pace. Blackbeard is probably the second to last or last arc, which is 5ish years away (or 6ish if it's the final arc) based on Oda's most recent completion estimates.
     
  15. Kia

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    I don't know what was so bad about WCI, he clearly had things in there that he'd been planning for a while (Lola's vivre card, the Tamate box), then again, I didn't start reading it until after Pedro died because I was impatient at that point and needed to know what happened next. Previously I was anime only but that should mean that it was slower for me. And I think that it being stretched out was the main complaint?

    But yes, good to know we'll have our answer though that means the end will come soon. *tears up*
     
  16. Seiryu

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    Wow...you missed all of the B.S. then (and following the B.S. on a week to week basis was terrible with the lowest activity levels my entire time here). Essentially, he wasted half a year. Based on the leaked info from former editors, WCI was supposed to be a very short arc where Luffy is forced to see he is not at a Yonkou level. My bias is that Lola was supposed to be the favorite child (vs. Pudding) and the cover story of Shanks at an influential wedding (laughing with pride) would connect the dots of Lola trading her influential marriage in exchange for the lives of Luffy's infiltration party/losing the Germa 66 connection. Back to the leaked info, the tamatebako was then supposed to blow up in her face (after they all safely left), which in turn would leads to the war against Big Mom after Wano Kuni's war (same effect as the current where Big Mom is on the hunt for Luffy, but he will be at her level when they clash).

    Since it was supposed to be a couple months or so at most, we would have had Reverie/state of the world arc at the end of 2017 and all of 2018 for Wano Kuni. Oda was operating at a slower pace, so we would only be about halfway through Wano Kuni currently (we had 7-8 years of manga content at the start of WCI; however with his accelerated pace, he is condensing the same 7-8 years in about 6ish [the current 80% completion and the numbers vary based on if the calculation is manga chapters, years of publication, etc.]).

    The biggest thing for me, he created all of these fake/empty victories in its place. The original plan was to have the crew fail in WCI, and for a while he was following that trend. It all starts with the Frog-Carrot B.S. Once that went down, I would be willing to bet that is the turning point where Oda decided to "try to outsmart" the few of us that figured out key points in the plot. Pretty much everything after that was not supposed to happen.

    Ultimately, I'd rather be close to the climax of Wano Kuni. When we get there, it will be universally acknowledged that getting to the truly epic action sooner would have been better. This is why I will always hold a grudge against Oda's petty pride (which he has more than earned based on the 20.5 years of literary perfection and countless yen he earned for WSJ).
     
  17. Kia

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    And this is why spoilers ruin the enjoyment of a medium. Without them, I was able to appreciate it for what it was, not for what I thought it was supposed to be. I mean, I'm sorry for you guys that had to go through all of that... but it was great for me because I went into it with no expectations at all and simply experienced the arc. But anyways, thank you for answering, that's totally not related to the subject of this thread so we should probably stop discussing it. Lest I go off on another of my many tangents. ^_^
     
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  18. Yuuzume

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    I agree that the two may not have fought at 100-110% like Akainu and Aokiji,but considering both of their personalities,the percentage should be close to 100.The only reason why it's justified for it not to be one hundred is the fact that it may not have been a life or death duel with their lives on line but just a serious contest of skills.But considering their skill level,their personalities and the fact that they were sparring with swords,it wouldn't be unusual for one of them to be scarred.In fact,the fact that WB talks about Shank's scar implies that he has indeed received ones form Hawk Eye,just not ones that deep or serious.So even though Teach may not be implied to be stronger than Hawk Eye,but at least 80-90% as stong as him,which still leads me to second guess his strength due to the weakness he has shown.

    I agree with the additional mastery of the devil fruits,and I believe that is the case with Teach's fighting skills as well (probably to a very basic extend at best though,which would barely be noticeable).Considering that we don't see much of Teach,then either could be said if he suddenly appears stronger than before,that he was already strong and pretended to be weak or that he got stronger after the timeskip.So as far as his strength before the time skip goes,I'd rather reach a conclusion based on what has been shown about him so far,which doesn't suggest he has any singnificant strengths other than his higher than average strength and his devil fruits.But to be fair,the only thing I believe was polished during the timeskip is his ability to use the devil fruits.I still don't think much of his raw fighting prowess.
     
  19. Seiryu

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    And that's where I'm in the minority that spoilers don't bother me at all as long as the content is good. Unfortunately for you, even the faster pace will probably still leave a void on content (which may be filled with Oda starting to put out legit stuff in databooks again). The series is so great, it leaves everyone wanting more. The fact that Oda still lives up to this is mind-boggling. In that sense, it is directly related to the main discussion.
    I think these comments exemplify the effect Oda is trying to have on the average reader. The context implies one thing, but is seemingly contradicted by the other. I think Oda has masterfully created this conceited bastard that willingly tanks the opponents best shot. The fact that he doesn't have any scars despite all of this is a big point of my bias (to tie it back into the Shanks scar). Even though he is purposefully being shown as vulnerable, it technically is zero vulnerability.

    We already have the foundation of its explanation (either it is a part of his "weird body" or it is linked to the Yami Yami abilities). Oda gave us the truth from Shanks, but is purposefully distracting from it with what appears to be. Pretty much all magic tricks are based on this, so I guess I'm not surprised Oda has used it greater frequency/purpose recently.
     
  20. Yuuzume

    Slayer Candidate
    Busoshoku Haki
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    The fact that he has no scars is attributed to the fact that the attacks he received were hardly his opponents' best shots.As for the rest,you say that what Oda has shown has made most readers expect the "obvious",but is what you suggest really the obvious outcome? Teach has been "groomed" by Oda for the longest time compared to the usual villains in the story and has been introduced as the only dual ability wielder.And to top even that,he is also a "D". Based on those things,what the expected outcome is may not be what you suggest.From a perspective different to yours,the average reader could very well be expecting Teach to be/become a powerhouse that ends up being Luffy's final opponent.From that perspective,what you suggest becomes the outcome that Oda wants you to expect,and Teach ending up being weaker than he has been built up to be becomes the unexpected.

    But that's as far as the future Teach goes,while we were talking about Teach's abilities prior to Marinefold and prior even to him stealing the darkness fruit.Even if Teach is shown up to be strong now,it wouldn't necessarily mean that he was strong from the start.That's why I use examples and hints that the series has already shown us.No matter what kind of plans Oda has for Teach or how strong he ends up becoming,all that will be attributed to the future Teach and they won't be a hint that he was strong prior to him getting the darkness fruit.The way to suggest that Teach was strong prior to eating the darkness fruit would be to give us more information about that time that suggests that,like a flashback of the time Teach wounded Shanks and scarred his face.

    Another way to look at that is that Oda has already given us the truth from Teach's fights,but is deliberately distracting us from it through Shank's very ambiguous statement,since we don't know any details of what happened when Teach wounded Shanks.But like I say above,regardless of how Strong Teach ends up being,it won't affect his past self.If Teach is shown using martial arts,it can't necessarily be said that he could use them in the past too.If we're talking about Teach's fighting prowess prior to Marinefold,then we can only use the information we already have on him to form an opinion.
     

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