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The Yonkos crews power order (with WB in the order, BB is excluded)

Discussion in 'One Piece Theories' started by Qweezy, Jun 16, 2018.

  1. Qweezy

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    I had a really many thoughts about the Yonkos crew orders, who got the stronger crew than other ones. I kept it as thoughts until I was shocked to hear some members of the community talking about the Yonkos crews in a way which I see not just wrong, but humiliating for them.
    I will make it short, I will arrange the Yonko's crew powers from the least to the most powerful and after that I will conclude the reason
    White beard Crew, Big Mom's Crew, Kaido's crew and the most powerful is Shank's crew.
    I know that this is bit shocking for some of you and some would see it crazy and makes no sense, ok let me try to convince you, I will tell you what bases I judged on.
    First, I will be giving an example to make things easier for you. Let's say there is a class, in this class there are 2 students who has almost the same capabilities, equipment and mental qualifications. Student A wants badly to be the best student in the class while student B want to be just a good student, probably who is score the higher grades? Answer will be Student A, ok why? because the motivations and ambitions of Student A is higher than Student B. This is the thing I based on my judgement. All Yonko's have almost the same powers, they are so close in their individual powers in addition to their qualifications, the differences which caused the crews power inequality are the ambitions and motivations of the Yonko which he/she seeks to accomplish.
    I will start with White Beard:
    White beard dream was having a family. This was his motivations and ambitions, just making a happy family. In a happy families (eastern families mainly) the load fully falls on the father and sometimes the elder brother. Let us use the same measure on WB crew, we find that the power of the crew in focused mainly on Marko, there are some good fellas like Diamond head and Viesta. The rest of the crew are normal and weak members which fell for Shanks Conqueror Haki and Luffy's one in the Marineford as well. So in shorter words, to have a good and safe family you need to have a powerful dad only and that's how we've seen that someone relatively weak like Ace succeed in making it to one of the crew Captains. Therefor I believe that Blackbeard has 1 commander who could really keep up with an admiral, his powers is like 70-80% of an Admiral power which is Marko, some will be asking about Diamond head and that he pulled a good fight with Aokiji, well I respond that he had 2 Advantages which were his df which won't be affected by Aokiji's DF and starting the fight with a surprise hit which cause Aokiji to have a nose bleeding.
    White Beard crew overall is weak instead of his captains who are relatively strong, and among these
    Captains there is only 1 Captain who is strong enough to keep with an Admiral. 1 Captain who is stronger than the vice Admirals. 1 swordsman Captain who we could say that he is stronger than the vice Admirals as well.


    -Now to Big Mom. BM's motivations and ambitions are ruling a kingdom which contains all the races. So shortly it is building a kingdom. Ofc the power needed for a kingdom is much more than needed for having a family. That's why we see that BM crew are relatively strong, even 2nd tier fighters who are named as ministers are strong, not just the commanders. To have a kingdom you need very strong king-guards and soldiers, just like the chess. BM's Commanders are really strong, I believe that 2 of the commanders could keep up with an Admiral (70-90 Admiral power), while the third one is stronger than the vice Admirals. Rather than the commanders she has ministers who are relatively more powerful and stronger in comparing to WB's other Captains than Marko and Diamond head maybe Viesta as well.

    -Kaido. This man is totally insane, what would you expect from the army of a man who loves wars? We saw how his 2rd Commander wasn't afraid to attack a ship full with powerful marines and yet he succeed in taking some of the marine ships down. Kaido's motivations and ambitions are making major wars. This is insane, they are war machines, they fear nothing that's why I believe that using the conqueror haki to take down some Kaido's crew mates won't work. Kaido's army majority are gifted, they have smile devil fruits in addition to them being war machines. Being a member of Kaido's crew means being a beast or a war machine who bores unimaginable circumstances. After those come the commanders who are named as disasters. I believe that Kaido has a well trained 1st Commander who is capable of beating down an admiral (110-120 of an admiral power) due the very hard circumstances and wars he mastered, the rest 2 disasters could keep up with the Admirals. His normal crew members are gifters.

    -Shanks, From what I've seen, Shanks motivations and ambitions are maintaining the peace. Stopping a war requires more powerful parties to interfere and stop them, they are stronger than hosting them and Shanks is the one acting this role, that's why I put him on the top of this list. I think that Shanks at least have 2-3 members who are capable to beating an Admiral (110-130%) due to the nature of his ambitions. Rest of his crew are very powerful since he doesn't recruit anyone who isn't powerful enough. As we have seen in the MarineFord arc, from all the remaining WB Pirate he didn't offer someone to join him than Marko which clearly shows that Shank's requirements and standards for his crew members are very high that people like Diamond head and Viesta aren't at the required level yet. I believe that's why the Marine got afraid after seeing his skip, at the end last thing they want to do is fighting a crew which their majority of the members are meant to be keeping up with powerful vice Admirals and Admirals.
     
  2. Behnam

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    I agree with this. Another way that we can reach this result, is the order of their appearance. The first Yonko and we saw who came to fight with a specific group (Marines) was WhiteBeard. Then, Big Mom and her crew against Luffy was the second, and now we're gonna see Kaido and his crew at Wano and their fight with these huge alliance among Pirates, Minks and Samurais. And obviously, Luffy have to take Shanks down too, in the future. He's going to be the last Yonko that Luffy is going to defeat. Oda himself mentioned that Shanks is inspired from his own personalities. This or for another reasons too, Oda has interest to keep him alive and awaited as much as he can. Therefore, if he's not going to be the last boss, at least he's going to be the last Yonko that Luffy is going to beat. He must beat all of them someday, no exception for Shanks. With this order we can say exactly what you've said:
    1. Shanks
    2. Kaido
    3. Big Mom
    4. White Beard
    In terms of sooner or later appearance and battles of these Yonko against their enemies, we can reach that Shanks is going to be the most powerful Yonko, among his crew and Kaido at the second place, among his crew, and Big Mom at the 3rd place, among her crew and White Beard at the last place, among his crew.

    I totally agree with this and I think it's not really acceptable to think the commanders of Shanks or Kaido are not capable to keep up with an Admiral. There are many people who think an Admiral is equal with a Yonko, though it's not true. I think Kaido or Shanks might have some commanders that can beat Admirals even.

    About the Yonko's ambition, I need to say you're really right here. The purpose of everyone really affect the people that person recruit for his ship. Because White Beard really cares about family and these kind of stuffs, he doesn't care about the power so much. Instead, he wants to recruit, better say “adopt” people on his ship. And that's why they are a family. And his crews are his sons and he is the father of them.

    For Big Mom, Kaido and Shanks, it's the same as you've said. I completely agree in this case with you and I have given more evidences there that can help it here. In order, I think Shanks is going to be really overpowered, though I still think Kaido has the advantage if he fights with Shanks alone. We already know that, in a 1v1, Kaido is the winner, no matter what. But I think Red Hair pirates are going to be more powerful a bit. The difference is not so much there. But still as you've said, Shanks has the powerful to stop the war, not to go farther and destroy Kaido.

    I agree that White Beard was the weakest Yonko and as I've mentioned, he prefers family over power. He appeared sooner, and therefore he is going to be the weakest, and he is. That old man died because his age was over, as Sakazuki said.

    But I think when we go for these 3, BM, Kaido and Shanks, the difference is going to be less and really hard to identify. But I think because of those reasons you've mentioned, the Big Mom is going to be less powerful than Kaido, the difference is important between them, but not as much as between White Beard and Big Mom.

    But when we reach the 2nd and the 1st Yonko, Shanks and Kaido are really close to be equal, that's what I believe. The difference is not really important in this case, because the difference between them can be easily ignored. I'm sure that Kaido can defeat Shanks because until now, everything that I'd heard in One Piece came out true. Like this sentence that Kaido is the most powerful creature in the world and no one can defeat him in a fair fight and 1 vs 1. That's why all the supernovas, Marco and the forces and he's going to bring, Samurais and Ninjas, Minks are going to fight against Kaido and his crews. Obviously, Luffy and some bunch of his crew and Minks could go in Big Mom territory and fight against them with Jinbei and Fire Tanks pirates. And all of them could run from the heart of Big Mom's territory. It shows that the difference between Big Mom and Kaido.

    Personally, I'd accept it if Shanks is more powerful than Kaido, but it's going to be really hard for me accept it, because of the happenings that we've seen until now. At least, I think they are going to be equal. But I'd go with that the Kaido is more powerful than Shanks. (According to what we've seen until now)

    About Black Beard, well... he could give Shanks that scar even before having Gura Gura no Mi. And Shanks himself confessed that it wasn't because of that he was careless or something. I don't think Black Beard would bring some weak crews to follow him. I think the purpose of Black Beard is not really clear right now. Becoming the Pirate King? I'm not quite sure. He is just quite strange and mysterious. I ordered Yonko according the time of their fights against their enemies, but BlackBeard was the first one who used his power. So is he the weakest? Of course not. So somehow, we can't order him in that place.

    If we go with the happenings and facts in the Manga right now, I'd say that Kaido is more powerful than Shanks or equal with him, and I'm not sure if BB is going to be less powerful than him or not. But if we don't limit ourselves to just the facts, we can see it that's obvious that Oda wants to make Shanks look powerful in the future. Therefore, he's going to be able to even defeat Kaido, though it's not acceptable due to the says of narrator of One Piece.

    Anyway, I enjoyed reading your theory and even the last one, but I don't think things are going to be just as planned in One Piece. Unexpectable happenings are always there to happen.
     
  3. Storm chaser

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    While I dont think Whitebeard would lose to Big Mom, if they fought 1 vs 1. But in terms of crews, Big Mom has an advantage. She has more underlings that are powerfull.

    Whitebeard on the other hand has alot of crew yes, and allies, but most were uh ''normal'' in terms of power. Cause power wasnt important to him.

    So I could see the powerline like you have written. Really good theory.

    Kaido and Shanks are kinda hard to say, since we actually know so little of them. I think they are equal.

    Blackbeard is on Big Mom's level to me, but not yet on Kaidos level. He dosent have a big crew, even if he is powerfull. Kaido has a big crew full of monsters.
    Tough if I would imagine Big Mom vs Blackbeard, I think Blackbeard would win.
    I also think he is gonna sacrifice someone of his crew for his own good in the future. To him, they probally arent that important, but only tools to get to his destination. Whatever it is. Might not even be Raftel at this point, but something much more.
     
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  4. Qweezy

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    Thank you very much for the further explanations and for supporting. It is really nice and honourable for me to be supported by your side. Thank you.

    First of all I would like to thank you for replying.
    About BlackBeard, I couldn't judge him yet but I think it is unfair to judge someone who is a Yonko for a year or two with old Yonkos, he will definitely be the last and we've seen how one of his commanders was beaten up badly and easily by Sabo.
    About 1 vs 1 fight skills, I didn't put them on consideration since I am comparing only the crews despite of the Yonkos individual fighting powers and skill because they are almost known furthermore their powers are so close to each other and almost the same, the gaps between their powers are very small and barely noticeable.
     
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  5. Helmet

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    #5 Helmet, Jun 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
    It took the combined effort of the Marines (full force at that) and all the Shichibukais the Marines could summon to stop the Whitebeard from rescuing Ace in the Marineford Arc. But Kizaru thinks that he and his crew alone could stop Big Mom and Kaido from meeting each other, that's why he asked Sakazuki whether he should head out to deal with the situation. Sakazuki also agrees that Kizaru alone is capable of dealing with the 2 Yonkos, that's why he only asked Kizaru to wait instead of laughing at him for being conceited.

    Based on the conversations between Big Mom and Kaido in chapter 907, it is pretty much certain that Big Mom is going to meet Kaido in person instead of just sending her crews. It's corroborated by Hina in a separate occasion also. Hina questioned Garp if he really want to just let the 2 Yonkos meet each other like that.

    From what have been revealed by Oda so far (as opposed to mere speculation), it seems to me that the Marines takes Whitebeard Pirates much more seriously than Big Mom and Kaido Pirates combined. Unless the Marines overestimated the strength of the Whitebeard Pirates (or underestimated the strength of the Big Mom and Kaido Pirates), or else how do you explain it took the full force of the Marines (which includes 1 fleet admiral, 3 admirals and Garp) and all the available Shichibukais to confront the Whitebeard Pirates (including Whitebeard himself), and 1 admiral (which is Kizaru, and his crew) is sufficient to stop the meeting between Big Mom and Kaido(and their crews)?
     
  6. Qweezy

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    First of all, about WhiteBeard he was the one who attacked the Marineford. I am talking about the crews, in the Marineford war, all spot lights were at WhiteBeard. The Fleet Admiral words were ''We can't guarantee to win against this man, because this man has the power to destroy the world'' Even Mihawk talked about WhiteBeard saying ''I want to see the difference level between me and that great man''.
    About Admirals, they are ignorant, they see themselves rivals for Yonkos and as a prove we've seen Akaino fighting whitebeard on his own without asking for help before seeing Kizaru fighting whitebeard as well on his own.
    If the an Admiral could take down a Yonko then why don't they take down all the Yonkos and control the world? They have 3 Admirals and 1 Fleet Admiral. Why do the WG needs the Shibukai for balancing if a single Admiral could stop 2 Yonkos.
    I think that what Kizaru and Akainu made was like an act infront of the Marines to show that they are not weak infront of the pirates and they do control the world.
     
  7. Helmet

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    There could be a thousand reasons why the Marines don't take down a Yonko. I'm not interested in speculating the reason, but I will give you one - they need the Yonkos to balance the world, or to balance the seas for that matter. If one Yonko was taken down by the Mairnes, another Yonko will emerge and take their place (take Blackbeard as an example). The Marines know that this cycle will never end and they need exactly 4 Yonkos to balance their powers, similar to the Three Kingdoms in ancient China. So they would rather maintain the current balance so long as the Yonkos don't go overboard. Again, I am not interested in speculating.
     
  8. Helmet

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    Kizaru an Akainu might be ignorant of their own strengths, but they are not the pretentious type who will act in order not to show that they are weak, they are not Buggy. Besides, the Marines in general believe that they could stop the 2 Yonkos, even Garp believes that. This is evident by the fact that Garp didn't laugh at the idea when Hina asked him if he "really want to just let the 2 Yonkos meet each other like that". Garp just don't bother! This suggests that the idea of stopping the 2 Yonkos is not absurd to Garp.
     
  9. Helmet

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    I was talking about the crews also. Based on the Marines' assessment, it requires the whole Marines and Shichibukais to take Whitebeard and his crews down.Let say Whitebeard was super strong that required a Fleet Admiral, 3 Admirals and Garp to take him down, that left the Shichibukais (the next strongest) to deal with the crews. So based on the Marines' assessment, Whitebeard crews were at least as strong as a Shichibukai.

    Now, assuming Kizaru an Akainu were not acting in front of the Marine and their assessment was fair, and if Kizaru were to take on either Big Mom or Kaido alone (assuming they are equally strong), who is left to deal with the Big Mom/Kaido's Commanders? The Vice Admirals! Therefore, if we based on the Marines' assessment alone (assuming their assessments were fair), it seems to suggest that the Marines think Whitebeard crews are much stronger than the Big Mom/Kaido crews.

    I am not saying the Marines' assessments were fair, we know for sure that the Big Mom's Commanders can't be as weak as the Vice Admirals. The Marines most likely have overestimated their own strengths. If that's true, it applies to both cases, I.e. the Marines has overestimated their own strengths against both the Big Mom/Kaido crews and Whitebeard crews. Instead of sending the Vice Admirals to deal with Big Mom/Kaido crews, the Marines should have sought help from at least Shichibukai to deal with the Commanders. Whereas in Whitebeard's case, instead of sending the Shichibukais, the Marines should have sought help from the World Government to get the Generals to deal with the Whitebeard crew. So it all ends up the same, the Whitebeard crews were stronger than Big Mom/Kaido crews based on the Marines' assessment.

    If we conclude that the Marines tend to overestimate their own strengths, how fair is Marines' assessment of the individual pirates' strength? In One Piece world, the strength of an individual pirate is normally reflected in the bounties (of course there are other factors that affect the bounties, but that is not important for discussion purpose), and the bounties have been generally accepted by the One Piece community as a fair measurement of the individual pirates' strength (except in the case of Chopper, of course). Since Marines are the ones who determine the bounties, if we accept that bounties are the fair meaurement of strength, we can then conclude that the Marines understood the indiviual pirates' strength well. Therefore their assessment that the Whitebeard crews is stronger than Big Mom/Kaido crews is fair also. The only problem with Marines is, they tend to overestimated their own strength.
     
  10. Storm chaser

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    You are welcome mate. ^__^

    That is true, he will be the last villain for Luffy, so there will be growing for him in power.
    Okay, good to know. i tend to think about 1 vs 1 when it comes to crews.
     
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  11. Qweezy

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    I was saying that, if as you previously mentioned that an admiral or 2 can stop 2 Yonkos this means that 4 Admirals (with the fleet Admiral) could take down 4 Yonkos (you could include Kong or whatever the Marines top leader name was as well) simple math. I do believe that the Marine could barely take down a Yonko but as you said it will be useless inaddition to making the Marines weaker. If WB who I insist that he is the weakest Yonko regarding crew inaddition to being extremely sick made this chaos, imagine what would Kaido do? Keep in mind that his weakest disaster attacked an Admiral in addition to the previous fleet Admiral and the number 1 marine female Tsuru yet he destroyed the half quantity of escorting ships then got away with it without neither being killed nor arrested.

    There is a big difference between stopping the meeting of 2 Yonkos and stopping 2 Yonkos, keep this in mind. They are wiling to stop the meeting of 2 yonkos which means taking down 1 yonko in the worst occasions which prevents their meeting and this is the objective.
    About WhiteBeard, they didn't require the whole Marines to take him down, neither the fleet Admiral nor his vice which is Garp participated mainly in taking down WhiteBeard. About taking down WhiteBeard, the main reason of him being eliminated was his age and not due to strength.
    About taking down the crews, the Marine soldiers are overpowered to a normal crew. The Marines Vice Admirals are countless add to this the Captains and lieutenants and other officers.

    About the Bounties, no bounties are not measurements for powers at all it is a measurement for how dangerous and reckless the pirate is, it depends mainly on the pirate influence and effect. Biggest example is Ussop's bounty raise after Dressrosa. I agree in the rest.
     
  12. Qweezy

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    To be honest, right now after what appeared, we can't really say who will be a vilian. Not only him but his identity, will he be a pirate, Shanks, a Gerrousi, IM-sama or even a marine. But yeah BB powers should be increasing like other Yonkos power did.
     
  13. Storm chaser

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    If we are talking about opponets, Shanks will be one for Luffy. Opponent isint necessary evil, but just someone you fight with. Like Katakuri, there wasnt hate between them.

    Im not sure where Kaido falls in this, but Im leaning more into an enemy to Luffy. Since they want to free Wano from him.

    But villains, Blackbeard. He is the reason Ace died, and how Luffy reacted to him in impel down makes it clear that he dosent like him.
    If Blackbeard is going after Raftel, he will face Luffy, since they have the same road up ahead.
     
  14. Seiryu

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    I definitely agree with the major points made. I will point out contextual points for my biases. Whitebeard's crew only was able to hold their own against elite of the elite until they let their guard down.

    We do now know the other two disasters, but the plot implies they are all parts of different crews/organizations (maybe one is in CPO or a Marine?). Oda does not have moral characters lie, so it is very likely that Inuarashi is correct when he says that they could have easily taken down Jack with a full moon. His age and combat experience also point to accurately estimating combat capabilities (on top of fighting each other constantly for about a week).

    Big Mom is the wild card since she has the biggest volume. Her strongest crew member is definitely below admiral level, but as long as there are enough haki users, even the elite of the elite can be overwhelmed with numbers. How well they work together would be key.

    Based on Shanks successfully ending the war against Whitebeard (blanking on the name), I think it is a fair assumption that the entire core of his crew grew to all be elite of the elite (context implies Shanks was definitely not Yonkou level when he met Luffy, but just like Roger and Luffy, the entire crew grew and matured as their journey continued). I forget the exact numbers, but it's close to Luffy's 10.
     
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  15. DarthPyro

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    I agree with the power degrees, but I don't think Shanks and Luffy will fight in the future. When Luffy said he will beat all yonko he showed his three fingers. He wasn't counting Shanks. I sadly think that near the end Shanks will be killed by Blackbeard and that will be the motive for Luffy to fight with BB.
     
  16. Helmet

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    Are you aware that Kaido had been defeated seven times and was captured eighteen times by the Marines and the other Yonko? So the idea of taking down a Yonko by the Marines still sound inconceivable to you?
     
  17. Helmet

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    #17 Helmet, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    Why do you think Ace is relatively weak? Because he was defeated by Whitebeard and Blackbeard?

    You probably know that Whitebeard was known as the strongest man in the world, but do you also know that Blackbeard inflicted wound on Shanks fair and square before he defeated Ace? If a Yonko like Shanks couldn't even defeat Blackbeard (injured by Blackbeard at that) before he ate the second Devil Fruit, it is unreasonable to conclude that Ace was relatively weak just becuz he was defeated by Blackbeard
     
  18. Qweezy

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    How many times was Luffy defeated? When you say defeated this means during his whole history, not his history as Yonko. Also I said that defeating a Yonko doesn't mean bringing him down, he would be defeated on 1 vs 1 Battles against other yonkos like White Beard. I need to ask you, what is the reason that Kaido was captured and defeated but he's still a Yonko?

    First of all, I didn't say he is week based on these two occasions, I judged him based on the Marine Ford arc. How could a commander fall by only one punch? Sabo who ate the same fruit within minutes managed to stand 1 on 1 vs an Admiral while Ace who had it for a long time couldn't manage 1 punch and couldn't save his little brother without getting killed, yes he is relatively weak.
     
  19. Helmet

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    I like your argument, really. By using your argument, you agrees Shanks is relatively weak, right? Let me replace Shanks with Ace in your sentence :"while Shanks who had been a captain for Redhair Pirates for a long time couldn't manage 1 BITE and couldn't save his little Luffy without LOSING HIS ARM, yes he is relatively weak"

    Correct? Whatever the reason, there is no excuse for a strong pirate to lose his arm to a sea king. If Shanks could lose his arm to a sea king (which is relatively weak compare to an Admiral) with only 1 bite by trying to save Luffy, why couldn't Ace lose his life with 1 punch by the Admiral (whom,for your information, is much much stronger than a sea king) by trying to do the same thing?
     
  20. Helmet

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    I didn't say Kaido was defeated, it was Oda who said that. Btw, how do you know that Kaido wasn't defeated during his history as a Yonko? Please show me the chapter and the sentence that implied he wasn't defeated during his history as a Yonko, thanks.

    You don't know the reason why Kaido was captured and defeated but he's still a Yonko? It is simple, becuz he can't die. He was given the death sentence 40 times but no execution device was effective on him. If he could die, he wouldn't be a Yonko anymore. Make sense?
     

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