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What Happened to Mother Caramel? [867+]

Discussion in 'One Piece Manga' started by Marco Polo, May 28, 2017.

?

Mother Caramel?

  1. deaded by big mom

    17 vote(s)
    56.7%
  2. deaded but not by big mom

    2 vote(s)
    6.7%
  3. runaway nun

    5 vote(s)
    16.7%
  4. marco smells like dryer sheets

    6 vote(s)
    20.0%
  1. Marco Polo

    marko de polaris
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    So Big Mom's flashback is a thing now, and with it we've finally found out her relationship with Mother Caramel. We find out that she was a literal mother in the sense that she took in several kids from all different races and wanted them all to live together in harmony, as well as being an advocate for peace between the humans and giants. This has shades of Big Mom's own dream about it, and is more than likely where Big Mom "inherited" her dream of everyone living together peacefully. However, At the end of 865, we see her in Elbaf, asking where Mother Caramel went. The implication from this is that she simply got up and left without any notice. But what if this isn't the case?

    We see in the final pages of Chapter 866 that Big Mom is about to go on one of her famous food tantrum things. We see scenes of mass destruction all across Elbaf, and Mother Caramel once again stepping in to Big Mom's defense. However, we're left on a bit of a cliffhanger as to what happens next, which is where this thread comes in handy. I'm not saying this is absolutely what happened, it's merely a possibility.

    "WHAT HAPPENED MARUKO" I hear you scream at your laptop, possibly waking your parents. Fine, I'll tell you.

    I believe that Mother Caramel may have been one of the victims of Big Mom (then Charlotte Linlin) during her food rampage on Elbaf.

    I don't really need to provide you with much here if you've been following the manga, I'll just link you to Chapter 829. However, I will be nice and provide you a pretty picture of the page I deem the most important when discussing this lil' idea of mine

    bigumomu.jpg

    For anyone that doesn't remember what happened and didn't click on my ever-so-helpful link to this whole chapter, here's some context for you:

    • Big Mom food rage
    • Kills her own son Muscat
    • Jinbe feeds her
    • Big Mom is now calm
    The thing that sticks out here is that Big Mom is asking what all the ruckus has been about, even though she's the one who went full Godzilla on the city. The implication here is that she has no recollection of what happened while she was in that weird food tantrum state. This raises the possibility that she did indeed kill Mother Caramel, and just simply doesn't remember doing it.

    "BUT MARUKO SOMEONE COULD JUST TELL HER"

    Yeah, they could. But in that page, Jinbe says that he has "no idea what happened", even though he definitely does. It could be that people are simply not telling Big Mom that she does a genocide every time she gets hungry, either out of fear, or in order to protect her mental state. We've seen throughout this arc that Big Mom is essentially a big kid who does what she wants and gets what she wants within her own kingdom, and nobody opposes her. @Jawahib mentioned in a chapter discussion thread a few chapters back (somewhere between 848-850 I think, I can't remember off the top of my head though) that Luffy called out Big Mom for her immaturity, and I believe that's the first time in a long time (or perhaps ever) that someone's spoken to her in that way because they're worried about her going mad etc. What's more is that her mental weakness has been exposed by Capone, who could put her in that weird traumatised state just by breaking a picture. Imagine if someone told her that she killed the person who meant the most to her, it would not end well either.

    The alternative possibility is that someone told her about what happened to Mother Caramel right after the incident, and that's the first time she experienced her traumatised mental state. The breaking of the picture, which Big Mom carries in order to remember her benefactor, may be a trigger for her mental breakdowns.


    Anyways, that's all from me

    What do you guys think?
     
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  2. Chaudfontaine

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    #2 Chaudfontaine, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    I would like to see her torn in pieces by BM, serves her right. Probably goes down like "It's oke, FORGIVE HEEERrrrrrr...."

    But there is always the possibilty that Waterfall-giant kills her when she is jumping between the rampaging 2. Either way, outcome is basicly the same: As she forgot the stuff during the tantrum, Mother Caramel just dissapeared for her.

    The more this arc goes on, the more I dislike Big Mom, Oda's doing a fantastic job creating such a villain that I detest with such passion.


    I clicked on the Bikini Caramel link, was dissapointed :cry:
     
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  3. Storm chaser

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    She ran away.
     
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  4. Seiryu

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    She's 80 years old in the flashback, which was ~40 years ago. She is definitely dead by natural causes by now, so that's why I voted for the someone else option.
     
  5. Marco Polo

    marko de polaris
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    The reason I'm not certain about the disappearance thing is that I can't really work out why it'd be Mother Caramel who would disappear; I'm not sure if the giants, who are somewhat indebted to her iirc, would particularly want her to leave

    Do you think she died on Elbaf?
    I think the flashback was 63 years ago
     
  6. ZakNik

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    I think she get to heaven...she died so Big Mom can live...others want kill big mom after rampage and she was like I will die in her place let her go. That is my opinion. That would nun do.
     
  7. Shankenstein

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    She was sent to the Phantom Zone by Superman
     
  8. Chicano180

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    Linlin ate her out ;)
     
  9. Seiryu

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    63 years is correct (the chapter mentions 37 years after Dorry/Broggy started their duel). The context implies Mother will continue to "forgive" Big Mom and will stick her neck out against the giants. They likely all get banned from Elbaf, which is why many (if not all of the kids) are current members of her crew.
     
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  10. Marco Polo

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    This ended up being spot on, damn

    UPDATE: CHAPTER 867 RELEASED

    Caramel and the other orphans "disappear" during Linlin's 6th birthday feast, where she gets overtaken by food lust and eats everything in sight (table included)
    Furthermore, Mother Caramel and the other orphans are nowhere to be seen

    Big question from the chapter: Did Big Mom eat everyone, Caramel included?

    Evidence For:

    • Nobody there
    • Big Mom is known for being destructive af when she's in food boner mode - cannibalism is not out of the question
    • Soru Soru no Mi: Linlin was unlikely to have known the name of Caramel's DF, or that she even had it (since she was in rage mode when she used it) - Caramel dying and then Big Mom eating the DF once it respawned nearby her seems like a logical sequence of events leading to Linlin acquiring that ability
    • Caramel stated that Linlin had massive potential for the WG: unlikely to abandon her and the fee she could eventually capture: refusal to run leads to her death
    • Linlin looks like a Titan a bit (not really evidence but come on, she so does)

    Evidence Against:
    • Linlin didn't eat any giants in rage mode, so why would she start eating people when she's in a good mood?
    • Caramel has business to maintain: may have cut her losses on Linlin and taken the others away to safety
    • Cannibalism too dark a motif for One Piece?
    What do you guys think?
     
  11. Shankenstein

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    Maybe the giants were too big to eat? Like when I imagine Big Mom eating someone it's in one big gulp, not a little bit here and there. Also, was she even eating anything in the rage state or just destroying stuff until she got what she wanted? I'm not sure what happened because I do think that the kids are all of those people at the wedding, so maybe something just happened to Carmel? I still don't understand how Big Mom brokered a marriage with the giants if they think she's a demon.

    Now is cannibalism to dark for One Piece? That's like filicide being too dark for One Piece, yet we've seen it. Besides didn't Zeff eat his own leg?
     
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  12. Mugiwara Nakama

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    I'm pretty certain that Linlin ate Mother Caramel along with the other kids. I mean, Big Mom has the Soul Soul fruit that Mother Caramel is shown to also have had in this chapter, and there's no way that she could've hunted down the fruit because she never saw or heard about it. The only way I can think of for Big Mom having Mother Caramel's fruit is if she was eaten, which opens up a whole new way to gain devil fruit powers that no one expected. You don't have to kill someone to then spend years hunting down their fruit, you just have to become a canibal.
     
  13. servo

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    OMG it took us a year to get out of WC from that point, and we though WC was ending
     
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  14. kaizokugari

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    The line of reasoning that big mom ate linlin sounds good. Perhaps once you eat someone, you get their df ability. This triggered the possibility of explaining teach getting gura gura no mi from whitebeard. Someone also says it has to do with black beard as a person when it is revealed. I read or saw a theory based on this chain of thought as well, Don't remember precisely to give credit.
     
  15. kaychan666

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    Im sure it will be explained once we get to Elbaf. I don't she ate them though other being a bit too dark. I think she sold the other kids and vanished knowing she couldn't control Big Mom. As much as she would be good in the World Government, no one would be able to control her if she were to go on a fit. We see that the only way to get her off her fits is to feed her, which isn't ideal to model her into a weapon.

    We also know too many characters that are a live from Elbaf that could tell us what happened that day. Mostly someone like Hajrudin or Gerth. I look forward to hear their stories more.
     
  16. Stue97

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    No he lost that leg in sea, he was stuck by the ship so he cut his leg off, you should go rewatch some old eps. to remind your memory
     
  17. Seiryu

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    No, the original manga is Zeff eating his own leg. To make it more kid-friendly (which the target audience was way back then), the anime created the scene of using the anchor/chain to cut the leg off.

    I don't know what the possible explanation is, but I'll stand by my gut that Big Mom did not eat Mother Caramel (the above "censorship" is a part of that). Either way, we probably have to way 2-3 years to get an answer (when Luffy has his war against Big Mom and we complete the flashback prior to the main event fight).
     
  18. ckimbrew

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    She got eaten. That’s how BM got her powers... and that’s how Blackbeard got his powers from Whitebeard. By eating the heart.
     
  19. Mcguint

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    The heart... *sigh*

    I'll bite, what makes you think the heart is what contains the Devil Fruit abilities?
    - I assume this has something to do with Law's Heart Surgery and how it swapped people's personalities. But, I wouldn't say that's related directly to the abilities. I see them in a different way.

    But, I'd still like to ask why you're insisting that's true.

    I mean, if it is true without a shadow of doubt I'd like to know why. Are you able to elaborate on that more?
     
  20. Ghost RPCB

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    #20 Ghost RPCB, May 23, 2018
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
    The briefcase of money, is it gone from the scene when BM runs into the house to look for everyone after she wakes up from the food frenzy or do you think it's not important enough to be evidence of her despairing? And she has MC's devil power how?
     

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