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Whitebeard was a member of rocks Alongside big mom and kaido

Discussion in 'One Piece Theories' started by James geraghty, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. James geraghty

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    I am aware that listing ( this character ) as a member of rocks is pretty popular now but I think it makes sense that big mom,kaido and whitebeard were at some point crew members.

    Now my biggest hint at this speculating is the big age gaps between the captains and the core crew members.
    Let’s take for example Marco- whitebeard, katakuri- big mom and jack - kaido.

    With kaido it is hard to say because we can’t really tell how old he is nor how old jack is but it was establish that kaido and big mom go back a long ways so he has to be above his 50s or 60s maybe more since I think he is a giant ( I heard many arguing he might not be since big mom is a human and also pretty big ) anyway with his crew we haven’t really seen his core group just low rank members who could have joined recently. Jack is the only one who we seen so far and jack again is hard to tell since he isn’t human but I say hen is around 40.

    Now with big mom she is 68 while I believe katakuri who is her 2nd son along with his 2 triplets are 40.

    Finally whitebeard who died at 72 and would be 74 had Marco who was also around the 40 mark when we last saw him.

    So this means that the captains have about 20-30 years difference between their top commanders.
    Now luffy is pretty young compared to his crew. Nami Sanji and zoro being a year or 2 older than him while robin and franky were already kids when he was born and brook is 90. Chopper is the only one younger than him. Though it is different from recruiting people who are older than recruiting younger people.

    Now with whitebeard was said to have been Roger pirate rival throughout his adventures so whitebeard was around for a long long time so at some point you will have to ask who his crew was.

    He couldn’t have had the same crew he has now since Marco who was the same age as shanks would have been another adolescent on the crew and I don’t see whitebeard having a crew of teenagers.

    We know in a flashback that he did sail with another crew before and he wasn’t a captain then.
    So the 4 main options are
    1. He was a solo pirate, like Hawkeye who doesn’t appear to have a crew.
    2. He sailed around with a bunch of kids who were strong enough to atleast take on Rogers crew members like reyleigh
    3. He had another crew who died or retired as pirates and marco and the others are the 2nd whitebeard generation of pirates.
    4. He sailed with another crew and started his own crew years later after they disbanded.

    Now I just don’t see whitebeard sailing alone as a pirate as he seems more like someone who wants to be around other people, I also can’t see him sailing around with a bunch of teens for a number of reasons.
    As for 3. I think this is possible but by now I think we should have heard something about the former pirate crews. Also being a pirate isn’t really something you can retire from. Reyleigh retired only after Roger died and even then he went into hiding because his bounty was still up. So you would expect whitebeard old crew to still be around unless it’s like luffy where he recruited much older crew members who died before the serious.

    I think it is more likely he was a commander of shorts among another crew, now it is still a long way away from the end of one piece but I think it is too late to be adding even more lore to this world about the previous life’s of someone who has been dead a few years now. The best opportunity to make whitebeard past life relevant is by including him into the rocks pirate. Having 3 future yonko as part of this crew would certainly make this rock guy legendery as well as showing off Roger and garp strength.

    Another feature I would like to take note of is the rivalry between Roger and whitebeard. If whitebeard was just a commander why would he and Roger a captain have such a strong mutual respect and rivalry between them? I think we have seen this same bond starting to develop recently between katakuri and luffy,

    Katakuri nearly killed luffy and brought him past his limits while luffy was able to fight katakuri head on and come out victorious. I don’t see katakuri becoming irrelevant anytime soon he will always be a match for luffy but it will become more clear in the future that luffy will be the stronger 1 between them.
    I believe katakuri will be luffy’s pirate rival like whitebeard was to Roger and how smoker seems to be luffy pirate rival similar to garp and Roger.

    So i believe the same can be done with the rocks crew, whitebeard might have been a commander but he could have still been the crew member closer with Roger.

    Finally i would like to mention something else which isn’t really beneficial to this theory but is something I think is interesting nonetheless.

    Whitebeard shares some common traits between the 2 yonko. With kaido both have or had the title of the strongest. Whitebeard being the strongest man and kaido being the strongest creature.
    With big mom it is the family. Whitebeard was the father of his crew while big mom was the mom of her crew.
     
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  2. Behnam

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    First of all, Kaido and Big Mom weren't in the same crew. So it's impossible for them to be in the Rocks crew at those times. The reason is simple, Streusen with Big Mom, those two made the Big Mom pirates to gather. ( That's what he said. The start of Big Mom pirates when she was child)

    So it's impossible for Big Mom that she had joined another crew before making Big Mom pirates. She made Big Mom priates with Streusen before anything else.

    Now let's talk about Kaido. I'm not sure if he was a part of Rocks/Locks pirates or not. But I'm sure that the greatness of Kaido in One Piece would just easily be ignored and it will be focused on the captain of Rocks pirates. And therefore, Kaido's reputation will be under a question and I don't see that. I don't think Oda would sacrifice him for Rocks pirates.

    About the White Beard, you gave reason about his relationship with between Roger and that he can be a member of Rocks pirates and still Roger would respect him. But I see something that's necessary to add. I remind you that Brook mentioned that Roger was a newcomer at 52 years ago. Therefore he it can be another Katakuri vs Luffy. Roger as Luffy and White Beard as Katakuri. Since you claim at that time White Beard was a member of Rocks pirates. Roger who was a newcomer, started to fight with Rocks and also he fought with White Beard. So it's quite possible, since White beard always wanted a family, he'd join different crews and walk on different ships for that.

    So now we know it's possible for White beard to be a part of Rocks at those times. For Kaido, it'd not be so much appropriate for the story. For Big Mom, it's completely impossible.

    So I think Rocks were ruling that age and they were powerful and well-known in the New World. Garp, somehow destroyed them and then, the other pirates would have much more space there, in the New World. And for holding the balance, the Yonko is there to fill the Rocks' pirates place. Shiki, Roger and White Beard and someone else. And the reason why White Beard could be a Yonko, was that he was a member of Rocks pirates before they get destroyed and therefore he knew their territory very well.

    But it's just an assumption. It's possible, but there is no evidence to imply it directly. I can only see White Beard to be a member of those pirates at those times. But still not so much sure.

    Another possibility is that White Beard, Shiki, Roger and Rocks' pirates were the Yonko and were ruling at that time. But it's not really possible since Brook mentioned that Roger was just a newcomer at that time, so he couldn't be a Yonko.
     
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  3. Con D Oriano

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    Whitebeard-Wants-a-Family.png Your theory reminds me about this scene in chapter 576, the flashback before whiteboard dead. And I think the option number 4 seems reasonable.
     
  4. Chaudfontaine

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    they are 48.

    I also have to pick option 4 for whitebeard
     
  5. James geraghty

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    Well with kaido and big mom working together it is just a guess but in the last chapter we know they had some short of history together and then it jumped straight into the escorts for the reverie eating together and discussing the rocks so I think that is where the idea of them being rocks came from. Now oda could be throwing us a curveball but it did make sense in the narrative.

    As for Roger. The newcomer thing is also kind of hard sometimes nice luffy is still referred to as a newcomer even as a emperor. Blackbeard was the one who said it was too early for him to earn that title. So with Roger it could be a case where he just moved up really quickly in the world. Again it can be looked at in many ways.
    upload_2018-6-13_19-48-13.jpeg

    upload_2018-6-13_19-48-53.jpeg

    These 2 images are of Roger. Now it is hard to tell the ages but in the 2nd picture he looks a few years older. He is bigger and maybe it’s the hair but in the 1st picture he look like he is in his 20s and in the second maybe his 30s.

    I can’t remember the name of the line but the 2nd was in lougetown when he was at a bar talking to the owner and telling him how he is heading for the grand line. It is implied that Roger didn’t go to the grand line for a few years after his pirating career started while luffy pretty much headed for the grandline as soon as he could.
    It was then when crocus joined to search for brook. So it is hard to tell what brook meant. He might have meant he heard about Roger from his time in the east blue or wherever or he might have meant he heard about him in the grandline just before he died. I say it’s the former. The thing is about the east blue and other blues is that it is kind of hard to make a name for yourself in comparison. Remember back in the east blue don Krieg and Arlong were big names but in the grandline they were small time pirates next to the pirates who were millions of times bigger than them and were still small. So when brook called Roger a novice pirate it might just be in the context that he heard about him in the 4 blues before Roger went to the grandline and took on the likes of whitebeard and such.

    Now for big mom. She is 68 and her oldest son Perospero is 50 I believe so that is an 18 year time difference and she was last seen in her background arc at age 8 I think. So she could have been a pirate on her own for 10 years or she could have joined up with a big time pirate like rocks in that time who recruited her for her strength. With streusen he was using big mom at first because he got tons of treasures with her and he did tell her she could rule the world or something one day but if rocks showed up one day and he saw a chance to get richer he would have manipulated big mom into joining rocks and sticking with him until she was more ready to start her own crew.
     
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  6. Behnam

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    As you have seen the map of One Piece, there is no way to go from a sea to another. The only way is to go to Grand Line and start the sail. Also Grand Line is the purpose of every pirate, why should Roger don't go directly there? Obviously you can't compare Roger's courage to those weak pirates of east blue generalize them.

    If he had become the Pirate King, or a Yonko at those times, Brook and his crew would hear about him and his reputation. Even when Black Beard became Yonko, though he was a newcomer, still people knew him and became famous after that.

    Also this part helps your theory, since Roger being a Yonko at that time means less respect for White Beard. As you said Roger was a newcomer like Luffy and WhiteBeard was someone like Katakuri for Rocks crew and their commander.

    I don't think you understood what I've said about it. Let me repeat it again, the moment when Streusen exactly said those words and I'm sure that I haven't heard anything that come up as a lie in One Piece. These are his words that the beginning of Big Mom pirates was at that moment. So it means from that moment until now, we've had Big Mom pirates. Therefore, it's impossible and completely impossible for Big Mom to be joined another pirate group after that.

    About the chapter and appearance of Big Mom an Kaido, and at the same time revealing things about Rocks pirates, I can say that it's not really acceptable here to claim that it's related with Rocks. It's not like everything that's in a single chapter has something related to gather. Also about that past between Big Mom and Kaido, there are many other theories too that can be more acceptable.

    Well... these chapters were awesome and many people came up with many interesting theories. Your theory can be true but about the Big Mom, it's quite impossible (Until now) and for Kaido it's not quite reasonable and acceptable. But about White Beard and Roger, it's really possible, but just possible.

    I suggest you to look at the other posts at theory section, you can find many interesting ideas there. It can help you to have a better look and observation. And also you can give your idea about their theories. Or get some ideas from them in that case.
     
  7. James geraghty

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    Oh yes I am not saying this is fact, this is a speculation I’m just saying that there is kind of a hidden layer to all of this content that was being left unsaid.
    There are 3 key parts to this part of the chapter. We had big mom asking kaido to get along with her like the old days. We had the marines freaking out about this possibility then we had hina talking about how after the rock pirate captain went away his crew managed to carry on and grow stronger and then garp telling her to not worry because if the rock pirates were to return the marines would be so unprepared that there would be no point in worrying ( in other words they should panic it is just garp being too laid back that he doesn’t care that he could die )

    While it is never said to all be connected it is reasonable to say that they are telling the same hidden story here.

    Now the reason the marines are so scared is because they know what’s ahead of them if their worries come true.

    We know that the world has a balance of power. ( marines/wg, warlords ( government approved pirates ) and yonko. )

    Now the yonko are basically pirates that have grown so big they are essentially their own governments now and to fight them would be to essentially declare war.
    This is seen with ace. When ace was being executed the marines brought their best soldiers and prepared for a war knowing whitebeard would show up and fight them.
    Now when whitebeard did show up he did bring an army and we saw a major battle the marines were winning for awhile until luffy showed up with reinforcements and by the end the marines barely won. The war ended because shanks showed up. Now there is a few theories about why they stopped but I just took it as sengoku haven’t no common sense and deciding not to start a war with shanks when he is giving everyone a way out.

    So we know why the marines won’t attack big mom despite it being clear that they up should know where she is since she lives on WCI instead of constantly moving around. There is also another reason. When whitebeard died there was a moment of celebration among the people but this ended soon because more pirates showed up attacking his former territories as well as other pirates wanting to go after the one piece, things were so bad for the marines they they had to conduct a draft and recruit new marines.

    So this is why luffy is such a threat because he will mess with this order and and bring in more trouble. The idea of 2 yonko working together is also very frighting and I suppose the only comfort this has is the fact that this alliance is only to kill luffy but if they were to team up to take on the world that brings in a lot of fear.

    Now this might just be common sense because they know better to take on 2 yonko after taking on 1 2 years prior but what we got from this conversation is that the marines are freaking out about 2 yonko working together and this somehow made hina want to bring up the rocks.
    So either we are going to see 2 yonko working together or we are going to see another yonko level pirate crew come back and cause a lot of trouble.

    As for big mom specifically. I believe st that moment when she was 8 was the start of her dream but I can’t say that is when she really became known as big mom. I mean her pirate title is pretty weird if you think about it, she is big mom. Now she is pretty big but the mom part is confusing because for your title to have mom in it means you have to be some kind of mother figure that would get notice. With big mom it makes sense because she has like 30 kids but back then it wouldn’t have made much sense for her to be known as that since she was just a kid. And even if she had a kid at 18 I wouldn’t even say that is a big accomplishment to earn such a title. Now she calls herself big mom her crew is called the big mom pirates not the Linlin pirates or whatever so she chose that name, so I think it makes sense that she created her official crew after she was a mother so the question is what did she call her pirate crew and what was her name before then.


    Now with Roger I don’t think he went to the grandline straight away because there was no need to. Yes it is pretty hard to cross the seas without going through the grandline but I don’t think he was in a hurry to go to the grandline. Remember Roger is a different type of pirate to the ones we see in one piece. He didn’t have anywhere to go he was just sailing around and having a good time until he decided for whatever reason to go to the grandline.
    Remember with luffy things were different. His inspiration for going to the grandline was because of Roger. He didn’t want to sail around the seas because he specifically wanted to find the one piece. Now he wasn’t in a hurry but he also didn’t want to waste his time. I remember ussop asking luffy to wait a few years ( I think this was when don krieg showed up at the baratiea ) and I remember yashako ( probably spelt that wrong ) telling luffy that he can’t just go to the grandline with only 5 people with luffy saying he will just recruit more in the grandline himself. Luffy wants to follow Roger, he wants to find the one piece and he wants to be a pirate king while Roger didn’t have any of those ambitions because he essentially invented them. As for as we know he was the first pirate king and he discovered the one piece and while it was shown that he and luffy are similar we don’t know if he was as reckless as luffy. Roger could have been more calculating and smarter and probably said he will wait a couple of years before going on this final sea and just seeing what the rest of the world had to offer. I don’t know if he was terminally ill from the start or if he knew he was dying after a few years but I think him dying was the reasoning behind all this. If for example he found out he was dying a few years after being a pirate then he probably decided to go to the grandline knowing his time was limited,

    With luffy it is kind of the opposite he wants to go through the grandline enjoy his journey and become pirate king and then I think once he does that he will return visit the straw hats individual homes then go back to the grandline and take another route to see all the countries and islands he missed on his first go around.
     
  8. Seiryu

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    Just because NBA teams have all of the superstars on the same team, having Whitebeard a part of Rocks/Locks just seems like overkill.

    I would disagree @Behnam that they were under the same "crew" as allies. Just like all alliances we've seen thus far, they keep their individual crews, but the hierarchy of power determines who the flagship crew/leader is. Just like how Shanks was not at a Yonkou level when he met Luffy, both Big Mom and Kaidou were much weaker 40 years ago and that is the aspect of why the reunion is such an impossible force to overcome with their current crews/power levels. Thankfully for them, Luffy will do all of the work for them over the next 2-3ish years of manga content.
     
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  9. Behnam

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    I'd personally go with them not being under the same crew too, but as I said, it's totally impossible for Big Mom to be in another crew. And it's not going to be really acceptable about Kaido. But since WB just wanted a family to live with, it's really possible that he might be under the Rocks' flag at those times. But still no fact or any evidence to imply that right now.

    Also yeah, it could be just an alliance. Even if they were weak at those time, they, being to gather really makes them overpowered.

    For the other parts I can say it's possible, but it's just quite stretched. The more complicated with less evidence, means less acceptable. But anyway, about Big Mom, there is a fact there. Streusen didn't say Linlin pirates, and also that assumption you give about the name Big Mom, is quite unreasonable because of this fact. Streusen and Big Mom were the first members of Big Mom pirates and that was the start point. I don't see how they can have joined another pirate group after that.
     

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